Link to Bush still hurting McCain, poll finds

Wilfred, I think you are right ~ and that cuts both ways. People want to hear how their next president will address this worsening economic crisis ~ not how much the campaigns dislike each other. McCain is at a decided disadvantage. Anything in his projected proposal that even slightly resembles remnants of Bush economic policies will sink like a rock. But Obama cannot expect to gain favor with punch lines and pulpit rhetoric ~ he's got to deliver, also.

A lot of what McCain has done is starting to backfire. Picking Palin is starting to sink in, and backfire. Picking Fiorina who was fired from HP is starting to sink in and backfire, and after she attacked SNL for being sexist and said that none of the people running for President of Vice President were qualified to run a company she's been pulled, no longer allowed to talk to the media. Now the MCCain camp is doing everything possible to stop the troopergate investigation, or at least stall it until after the election, and that's just reminding people of how much of an obstructionist Bush and Cheney have been, and how hypocritical McCain is being considering they're saying they will bring a more "transparent" administration.

My only guess is that the McCain camp was counting on most voters being the very republicans that tune into rush and post on these boards, uniformed people who don't appear to know or care what the difference between right and wrong is. Clearly the majority of Americans are better than that, and I thank God for that.

McCain isn't slipping. In the state by state polls he is still going up so something is amiss in the national poll today--which still has him ahead by the way.

When folks find out that the Democrats have been the ones with their hands in the till on the Freddie and Fannie mess McCain will soar yet again. Of course Obama came out and blamed Bush, but Bush actually called for additional oversight of those institutions about two years ago--McCain backed sterner oversight too---guess who did not support it?

Well, a hint. One of Obama's chief financial officers (before today anyway when he'll probably be thrown under the bus with Obama's usual that's not the SOB I new disclaimer used on everyone from Rezko, to Grandma to Ayers so far) was dismissed for inappropriate takings from those groups.

After Rove came out and said how terrible Mccain's ads are I dare him to keep doing it. All that does is help Obama as if he needs help now.

USFreedom,

You stated that ProudLiberal is not even an American and should not be listened to. Well following that same logic then Fox News is not even an American owned station and should not be listened to, right?

How can you say McCain has the sleazy ads. Is it because Obama says so. Did you see the two he put out yesterday--just unthinkable.

Unthinkable Mathladysv: ????? UH McCain getting slammed by everyone except Obama himself for distorting Obama. Everything McCain has put out has been debunked, but some such as yourself continue to hold the line that McCain is a saint. I laugh. Unthinkable? Mcains ads are and on top of that he's shooting himself in the foot. YEA!!!!

That's all you can say about Obama, sleazy, because that's his strong points.

Pat G

You should work for Mccain you would fit right in.

wilfred,

what do you mean "will"?

McCain's campaign has been lying already.

The one that irks me most is the sex education one where he claims that Obama will "teach children aboud sex before teaching them to read". This because Obama supported a bill on "age appropriate sex education in grades K - 12. FYI, age appropriate sex education for a kindergardner is telling them that if Uncle Ernie wants to go play touchy in the bedroom, to go talk to mommy. And McCain smears this into his most disgusting lie yet. The conservatives must be afraid that teacher will use the word "penis", which makes them want to go crawl under a rug.

then there's the ultra sleazy Paris/Britner ad and the blatant lies about taxes for the middle class. Even Karl Rove says McCain's ads are too sleazy.

McCain's ad campaign is irrefutable, conclusive proof that McCain is a liar and will crawl into the gutter in order to win. Do we really want this type of person for president? Haven't we had enough of gutter politics?

Roger...

Proudliberal has mentioned he/she came to this country 25 years ago, and frankly, does not care for it anymore. He/She plans on leaving the country...but after the election so he/she can vote. I have never seen a positive comment, of any nature from Proudliberals voice....period. He/she does not believe in God...that was stated also. Believe what you want there just never seems anything positive from her posts and I am sure that is why US said what he did. I think he make a point that if you want to live here, with our freedoms, quit badmouthing everything and add something to this country or has was stated...just leave. Obviously, from whatever country he/she came from, I am sure every American advantage was used up by proudliberal....and for whatever reason...America is trash to he/she now. So...I am in agreement with US...just let proudliberal pack his/her bags and go to another country. perhaps that country you can agree with more...

marie thompson,

the Repubs controlled congress and the white house from 2001 to 2007. that's as close to total control of our government as it gets. since Jan, 2007 the dems have a slim majority, which is subject to Bush's veto, therefore the democrats are not in control. Since 2001 the Republicans have totally dominated our government.

go ahead and argue that point......(spin,spin,spin)

Since Republicans control the government, they are mostly responsible for the outcomes.

go ahead and argue that one, too....(spin,spin,spin)

As for association, John McCain was one of the Keating 5, who associated with convicted swindler Charles Keating who robbed peoples' pension funds to support a lavish lifestyle that included flying John McCain around on a private jet, and having John McCain stay at his lavish Bahamas retreat. These are all completely true, and documented. McCain was censured by congress for his actions. He was a very bad boy.

There are laws on the books right this very minute that make the fraudulent practices of mortgage lenders and those applying for loans, which lead to this mess, illegal. This mess could have been prevented if the Bush administration had been paying attention and was willing to do something about it.

dal
I would be proud to work for a man like McCain. It would be 10 steps higher than obama.

mscottring,

Eloquently stated and I share in your opinion, all the way around.

I saw a text comment attributed to McCain in quotations on one of my local news stations yesterday. Basically, it said that McCain is now calling for "New Rules" for running " Fair and Honest campaigns."

Isn't that analogous to 2 boxers being in a ring and one throws the first punch before the bell ever rings... but finally in the 4th round, his opponent effectively begins to box back with style...

Crying havoc by calling for "new rules" in the middle of any sport, board game, debate, campaign, competition, etc... is just too ridiculous a thought to even consider as anything other than pure entertainment for comic relief... during these difficult times for most Americans.

sorry... I took out the rest of my "analogy" by mistake so...

Isn't that analogous to 2 boxers being in a ring and one throws the first punch before the bell ever rings... but finally in the 4th round, his opponent effectively begins to box back with style...landing harder blows to his opponent... so much so that the first boxer asks the ref to stop and make new rules in the 8th round because the 2nd boxer, while standing toe-to-toe with his opponent is taking the wind out out of his very sails...

Larry Wilson- So when you say:

"This mess could have been prevented if the Bush administration had been paying attention and was willing to do something about it. "

Are you referring to the housing bills that were signed under the Clinton Administration? Or are you referring to Barney Frank, liberal democrat, who was responsible for oversight of Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac? Or how about Jim Johnson, who actually RAN Fannie/Freddie, and who currently is an advisor for Obama and who led Obama's VP search?

We honestly can go back and forth with this crap all day! What happened to having people be responsible and accountable themselves? The corrupt people who actually run WallStreet should be held to accountable. These are the people who are responsible for this mess. It's not the Bush Admin or the Dems. It is the shareholders of these companies who voted to put these people in charge!!

"Proudliberal has mentioned he/she came to this country 25 years ago, and frankly, does not care for it anymore. He/She plans on leaving the country...but after the election so he/she can vote. I have never seen a positive comment, of any nature from Proudliberals voice....period. He/she does not believe in God...that was stated also."

Ok, I'm voting for McCain for purely economic reasons (reduction of the world record corporate tax rate that causes most of our outsourcing problems, and a strong avoidance of increasing taxes on the rich that when coupled with the corporate tax would eliminate tens of thousands MORE jobs while increasing costs, something that I can't afford with my under $32 thousand a year job)...but what does that have to do with a god. I'm a strong Republican, but I'm also an atheist (and yes, pro-choice). God has nothing to do with acting as a US President. Policy is the only thing that matters. There are many economic reasons to vote for McCain and even more to not vote for Obama (that world record corporate tax, increased taxes on the rich from Obama at the expense of the poor and middle class, McCain expanding worker incentive programs for the poor versus Obama cutting them in favor of meaningless social assistance programs that throw crumbs but no help out of poverty, alternative energies, incentives for new technologies, etc., but using God as a reason to vote one way or the other is absolutely ridiculous. Moral issues aren't even part of the job, abortion, gay rights, and all that belongs to the states, not the federal government and the President. Proudliberal can be completely ignorant on the economy or vote based only on totally unrelated to the job moral issues such as abortion, but trying to hurt credibility by saying the person doesn't believe in a god only hurts your own credibility, not the other person. Focus on REAL policy, not promises, not moral issues, not stereotypes. Focus on the economy and the proposals each have created to influence it. This is why, as a lower middle class worker (one who is losing his job when it expires next month and hasn't found a replacement yet), sees no choice outside of voting for McCain and pushing to bring more jobs back home. We're wasting argument sand time by looking at issues completely unrelated to the job.

Very respectful campaign he's running.

independent,

Bush is the chief executive.

The fraudlent lending practices that lead to the mortgage meltdown are illegal, and were whtn Bush was inaugurated.

The law was not enforced.

Republicans have dominated the govenment for the past 7 years.

These statement are all true.

Go ahead and blame any or all democrats.

Larry-once again you fail to see the fallacies of your own party!! As per your statement of fraudulant lending practices, I totally agree. However, you forget to mention that the ones responsible are the ones running these companies who hold the "bad" paper and carried it on off-balance sheet. However, because it was arranged this way it was not able to be verified and not known of the true damage to the housing market, EXCEPT to the people who had access to it-and this was the bankers and CEO's of these companies. And if you want to know who changed the law on this practice so these companies could do business this way----Clinton!!! So give me a break with this partison nonsense. You have no argument here!! Oh and thank for being able to argue the fact that your liberal buddy Barney Frank was the oversight leader of the housing market. As well as Chris Dodd, who by the way received more money from Fannie/Freddie than any other congressman dating back to 1989. And guess who was the #2 leading congressman to receive money from this corrupt organization, you guessed it-OBAMA!! Which he did in 3 years time!!

For once can you please try and understand that our economic crisis stems not only from the Bush Admin?? Yes, I agree they are part of the problem. But try and put partisonship aside and be honest!! Otherwise it is simply ignorance.

Sure it is. Neither McCain nor Palin are credible. Hell, its the perfect match.

Sounds like Jim in texass is going to be a sore loser. NOBAMA08

Seems to me the NYT just reported the poll numbers and the whiner republicans can't accept them.

The NY Times chiefs would have been hanged for treason in a less tolerant country for leaking state secrets. For their inappropriate partisanship and lack of the touted media fairness, they should be whipped repeatedly with a wet noodle. No wonder their readership has dropped. 67% of Americans say they do not believe the press and say it favors Obama (and D's) so much for dispassionate reporting.

Wow Marie , hanged for Treason... would they be in the front or back of the line, behind Bush's GrandPappy for helping the Nazi's funnel money, or Bush Sr who made deals with the Iranians, or Cheney for giving Dubya false WMD info so Haliburtons gouching of the state could go exponential, or or or or.... if the NYT people are at the back of the line they would never get hung as more Repubs keep up the traitorous acts so often the NYT guys would keep getting pushed to the backs of the lines.

or Sarah Palin wanting to SECEDE from the United States, oh but to you she is some twisted patriot... give it a break...

the only thing no one believes anymore is your partys swiftboating tactics, while the country is going to hell in a hand basket, you folks wants 4 more years to finish making this a two tier society of rich/poor... for your sake you better make sure you're worth a billion and can run and hide once McBush's handiwork hits the fan (some more)...

I don't think Biden is such a great pick. He makes all those dumb comments, even going as far to ask a paraplegic to stand up, some one he knew. If something happens to Obama, we will be in a world of hurt. And just because Obama is younger doesn't mean his will continue to be good. You never know when past drug use will rear its ugly head.

Kurt-your response does not even deserve a response. Pathetic!!! As for swiftboating-it is your candidate and his 527 henchman than are now trying to swiftboat McCain with negative ads while he was a POW. Amazing!! Being an independent I am not blind to the partisanship I see everyday-thank god. You people need to take off your blinders!

I did a poll of 100 friends and 95% say the New York Democrat Times in not worth reading. Easy to get a poll to say what you want by knowing who you call!

First Mathlady (Ill get to you independent voter) Get out of your house and get a life. Look around at the population. UH, now drug use. GW is an alcoholic. Once an alcohic always and alcoholic. His presidency has shown that to be a fact BECAUSE Alcoholics who have lost control of their lives to Alcoholism attempt/try in every way to get control back. Well we see has GW did it. Dufus...................Now you independent voter. Speak for yourself. I'm an independent also. I get out of the house and look around at the suffering going on. Swift boating my rear. What so you think McCain is up to????????? Besides just as GW, being a POW only serves to reason that he's itching to start a fight to make up for what he went through. (IRAN, Russia? ) The blinders are off everyone except you and so far Mathlady THe rest just grouse and grab at little things liek "McCain will win, Obama is a Muslim, he has no birth certificate (McCain was born in Panama). I thougt I'd add Panama because it's just as stupid as the birth certificate post. Hawii is a state. His Mother was and American so by that afact right there he is an American. Wasn't his fault he was dragged around all over the world. For that matter it makes him worldy not bitter. Now McCain was born in Panama BUT, his parents were military and Americans so he got his citizenship by default just like Obama. So all of y'all shut up with the ignorance. Enough is Enough Oh yes, that's another line McCain stole from Obama.

meneither-obviously you did not understand what my comment was meant to disclose. So I will try once more! All you damn dems and liberals do (on this blog) is point the finger at all the bad things that repubs do, and yet fail to look in the mirror. All politicians do the same things. They all smear and attack. Your comment

"Besides just as GW, being a POW only serves to reason that he's itching to start a fight to make up for what he went through. (IRAN, Russia? )"

is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. If there is one candidate in this election who understands the effects of war and what suffering war brings, it's 100% McCain. Maybe if Clinton would of had some balls he would of gone after Bin Laden (which he knew where he was) after he bombed 3 of our embassy's and one of our ships killing 100's of americans, we would not even be in this mess. But unlike you, I am an independent and can call out BOTH sides for their BS! Why can't you admit to the fallacies of your candidate? Oh, is it because he can walk on water-gimme a break! There are lots of things I disagree with about the Repub's policies. Also this whole charade about birthplace's is stupid on BOTH sides. Give it a rest.

The idea that Barack and Joe do not cross party lines is a myth put out by the McCain camp. It's simply not true. Not surprising considering it's the McCain people saying it they seem to have lost the ability to tell the truth.

Barak doesn't even vote a lot of the time with his own party. He is so indecisive he just votes present to avoid being held accountable for his votes. No Obama isn't known as a bi-partisan candidate who will mend fences. As I mentioned in one debate he said he would heal the rift with the parties by "bringing them over to our side."

That is NOT give and take.

McSame once upon a time was for fixing the country, now he has sold his soul to you religious kooks who don't get the fact that freedom of religion doesn't mean you have the freedom to force your religion on others. US Freedom he is not half as scary as Cheney,Bush still running things behind the scenes (I mean Bush Sr - Mr CIA if you will) especially if McSame croaks. Palin will be Pawn-lin...LOL,if it werent so scary. We already have had BushSr wheel Reagan around, then his son and now McSame/McFailin', NOTHING could be scarier. Except maybe the fact that Erik Prince is amassing a standing army with U.S. taxpayers dollars (arent those the dollars y'all are always whining about) to protect Bush/Cheney thru Blackwater his "company". Yeah US Freedom , oh Obama is the scary one isnt he...

McCain is known for his bi-partisanship in the Senate.

McCain will be the puppet as he's ruining back and forth to keep his base intact. That was Palins job. Obama teamed up with McCain duh, to get a Bill passed. He voted not present when he was there due to all of the earmarks, Republicans earmark I might add more than others. (Probably for Palins pet projects like the Bridge to Nowhere, hiring lobbyist for her own use etc ect ect.). I agree with Kurt, McCain has sold his soul to the devil. Even Bush Sr, keeps his mouth shut over his two sons blunders. Their Momma takes up for them but then she blathers all of the time, so nobody cares.

It's hard to put into words just how tired I am of the 'voting present' spin. Based on interviews on Fox and MSNBC, a vote of 'present' in the IL Senate is the same as an 'opposed' vote with an explanation.

However, even if the 'present' vote was the same as 'abstain', Obama cast that vote 135 time... out of roughly 10,000 votes. That means that 1.35% of his votes were 'present', or just over 1/100. How many votes did McCain abstain from in the Senate, or simply not show up? I'm pretty sure it's more than 1.35%, and most likely significantly more than that.

Why would you cross party lines if you were a Democrat? Start a war, tax breaks for corporations, no help for health care, policies which out source jobs and raise the unemployment. Why would you vote with Bush's corporate America?

"The idea that Barack and Joe do not cross party lines is a myth put out by the McCain camp."

Hmmm, voting present less than 2% of the time, and close to 97% voting with the party. Whether you're for him or against him, whether the votes were good calls or bad, that is NOT crossing party lines. That said, if one party has the best proposals, vote with the party. Of course this hasn't been true, so the evidence shows Obama merely voting along with the party, much more than McCain. Not that any of that is as important as the current policies they are proposing, but when a statement is false it should be corrected. There is no myth, you're simply defending Obama because he's the candidate you yourself are supporting, but you're not defending him with facts, instead denying things that ARE in fact true but can be made to sound negative about your candidate of choice. No myth here by the McCain camp, just a cold hard numerical fact...in this instance at least.

Carving up and killing the defenseless-oh nice solution emotionaliberal. Overcrowding? How about all those stupid precious pets you libs treat like humans. Little reality check- Dogs and cats-They're animals. Unborn babies- They're humans. Humans come before animals. So stop treating animals like humans and the unborn like animals. Class dismissed.

Most dogs I know are better then most people I know.

How about sterilization? Instead of creating life and then destroying it, why not get sterilized and protect the planet. Then everybody can be happy.

I used to be pro life but I have changed my mind. Since it appears that most people who are pro-choice are liberals and most people who are pro-life are conservatives I have decided that if liberals want to abort their kids thus limiting the number of young libs then I fully support the pro-choice movement.

What annoys me about the GOP's stance on abortion is that they don't think of the welfare of the child after the child it born.

The GOP doesn't believe in birth control, but does not want to provide health care, education, or housing for a child after it is born.

Abortion was made legal because women were dying from getting abortions from hack Doctors. Abortions have been around for centuries. I once read a book written in the 1700's and they talked about a woman aborting a fetus then. She went to a "witch doctor" and got some sort of drink and took a buggy ride on a bumpy road.

And the abortion issue was drummed up by the GOP to manipulate their voters. Abortion isn't the problem; it's a symptom of the problem. By focusing on abortion you have lost focus on the real issues that plague our society.

There is nothing worse than child abuse. Focus on the living.

See, I am willing to reach out to the other side. Now that is true compromise and I am doing this in a truly bi-partisan mindset. So I would like for all you conservative pro life people to join me in supporting liberals in their choice to abort their kids. Let us not argue.

Right, Phantom...because a conservative woman has NEVER gotten an abortion before. Yes, only left-wing liberals dare to utter and utilize the dreaded "a" word.

We lefties (and moderates like myself) thank you for not imposing your religious views on us.

Jan,

See, more often than not so called conservatives are more than willing to wish death upon liberals. Hypocrites all.

Captain O,

Did I ever say that a conservative NEVER had an abortion? I don't think so. Thus your comment makes no sense. Also, why do you assume (or prejudge me) that I am religious? Did I make any mention to abortion being against any God or religion's belief? No. You just assume that I must be religious for you to make that statement.

Stop giving birth to more republicans!

So what you're saying, Phantom, is that if a conservative woman wants to have an abortion you'll still be pro-choice?

Capt O,

It would depend on the reason. My belief is that if this nation wants abortion then either Congress or the individual states should actually pass a law allowing it. I believe that once a fetus/baby makes it to the 7th month that it is viable and should not be aborted unless the life of the mother is in danger. I would accept abortion in the case of rape. A little undecided on incest still. I am against minor girls getting abortions without the knowledge of the parents. I disagree with those who want no abortions and I disagree with those who want abortion on demand for any reason anytime. Notice that no where did I use religion in my answer.

I know why republicans are against abortion, because they only want the rich who can afford to travel to another country to be able to afford to get one.

Perhaps, one should try thinking of this in the big picture...do we really want the government to pass laws about what we can or can not do with our bodies?

It's a shame that there is no law on the book that attempts to regulate a man's body. Perhaps if there was then they would be in a better position to relate to the idea of not being in a position of control. Maybe when McCain has RvW reversed he could also do us the favor of passing a law that any man suspected of rape be castrated. That way no matter what lead to the sexual event - he still has to pay the price, just like republican's think women should.

proudliberal - Your posts are now ranting like some crazy person. This is a forum about articles. Your person rants on animals, children, and abortion have nothing to do with this article.

Most dogs I know are better then most people I know

truer words were never said! GOOD GOING

"The GOP doesn't believe in birth control, but does not want to provide health care, education, or housing for a child after it is born."

You lose credibility when you base your accusations on stereotypes that are far from true. That said, I'm a strong Republican, but also pro-choice and an atheist. It's in matters such as health care, education, housing, job creation, etc. that makes me a Republican, as that party does more for the people than the Democrats are currently proposing. Taxing the rich to give to the poor? That's called indirectly screwing over the poor and middle class, along with all of those children. Health care, education, housing...yeah, that all depends on people having jobs, which means NOT doing something like maintaining our world record corporate tax rate that is the single greates cause of all of our outsourcing. These current political Democrats lose all credibility (Obama included) when they preach that they stand for the little people and the Republicans don't, while it's them that are proposing acts that will hurt the working class while Republicans are proposals ways to actually help them. You probably believe that helping the rich succeed means you are against the poor and middle class, even though the ONLY way to help the poor and middle class is to support business growth. Remember, the rich are 100% dependent on the poor and middle class doing well in order for them to maximize their profits, same as the poor and middle class are 100% dependent on the rich for lower consumer costs and job placements. You CANNOT attack one without it damaging the other. Hurting businesses and the wealthy takes away the needed lower consumer costs and job placements, period. It takes a business Republican to help those in need (I was living out of a beat up old car until a Republican work incentive program gave me an opportunity to create a resume and establish a residence, and provided a chance to find work that moved me away from government assistance programs). THAT'S how to help the poor, not give them crumbs and a kick back to the curb, Democrat style.

My pets are loyal,not a lot of humans are.

It's people like you, that have money, that was either pilfered, finaggled, or had some form of trickery and greed that has this economy what it is today. When the republicans de-regulated all major financial institutions, yes, even oil - it gave the REEECH BEEECHES AND BAAASTAAARDS the opportunity to manipulate the stock market and pull out thier stocks, of course when they were notified a head of time, before the public knew (thiefs) causing the collapse of our economy. Yet, the unworthy wealthy have continued to support the "trickle down effect". Remember - The meek shall inherit the earth. Yes, I am pro-choice, liberal and believe we are all created equal. I will support Obama/Biden.

Janice...How about sterilization? Instead of creating life and then destroying it, why not get sterilized and protect the planet. Then everybody can be happy.

I've asked this question before many times. Why do doctors abort babies, but then refuse to sterilize women under 25, with or without kids? This seems a bit ass-backwards to me. We're all for killing babies, but not for preventing the babies in the first place. Makes absolutely no sense. I, personally, am against abortion except in extreme circumstances. If we are going to live by the slogan "it's my body and I can do what I want with it", then we should be able to sterilize ourselves whenever we are ready, not the doctors.

beckwolf,

you seem intelligent and articulate, and not prone to flame-throwing, so I'll ask you a question.

how can you still support trickle down economics?? the premise that by giving tax breaks to the wealthy you're helping the economy. Everyone knows, or should know, that our economy is driven primarily by consumerism. Obama's tax plan will put more money in the hands of millions of people with incomes less than $250K. These people will turn around and spend that money. This will lift the economy. It worked under Clinton. Trickle down has failed miserably under Bush.

one more thought, if you can hold on. There's an argument going around that a business owner will cut jobs in order to avoid paying taxes. I think that's absurd. If I'm a business owner, I pay taxes on income after deducting all costs and taking all credits. If I add an employee and his cost is equal to his expenses, I break even. If his labor generates a $10,000 surplus. My income goes up $10,000. Under Obama's plan, the top rate goes from 25% to 29%, so instead of paying $2500 in personal income tax and keeping $7500, I'd be paying $2900 in tax and keeping $7100. Either way, I would rather pocket over $7000 by adding that employee. Who would turn down $7100 cash in his pocket in order to avoid paying $2900 in taxes? The argument doen't hold water.

please reply.

Larry,

Where did you get the 25% top bracket number? The top bracket is 35%. Plus you are not including any state and local taxes that could also further reduce any profit. Next what if the employee labor generates only $1000. Take almost 50% away (39 plus state/local) leaves only $500. Then the employee takes off 30 to 60 days of paid family leave thanks to congress and the boss has to hire someone else and the profit goes away from the original employee and the new one. Frankly pulling some made up $10,000 profit out of the air is useless.

Proud Liberal is a thinking person. If everyone posting here were to expore the scientific facts presented by some of the best scientific minds in the USA & Europe, ecologically literate scientists, they would quickly grow profoundly concerned that Earth has begun to die.

Every aspect of all life, including mans', is governed by Earth's ecosystems and their biodiversity. Global warming is but one concern; however, these scientists recognize that mankind's ongoing slaughter of the physical, living body of Earth, i.e., ecosystems, is scrambling and shifting the biogeochemistry of the entire planet that controls and governs the very cycles of all life. Ecosystems/forests, marine, riverine, etc., are in the eco-nomics of life, which include oxygen, fresh water [transpiration, which cools the immediate and regional climates]; the balancing of the gaseous composition of the atmosphere, the creation and renewal of soil, and on, and on; we're talking all the reasons mankind has life.

In just a few years, mankind will have consumed all of Earth's terrestrial ecosystems with concrete, hot cities, parking lots, freeways, housing tracts, skyscrapers, all the artifacts of civilization and burgeoning human populations, synonymous with dead planet, as life-gifting as the surface of Mars.

Every tenet, every natural law that governs Earth, is under attack because mankind is, overall, scientifically illiterate and hasn't a clue as to what and why they live on a life-gifting Earth. Every tenet of ecology is wrapped around the law, that ecosystems check and balance the populations of all living; however man, thru technology & civilization has changed this dynamic in favor of man. And, man is killing Earth. Every foot of concrete, city, i.e., heat islands, is one more foot of dead earth, just like the face and body of Mars. Mankind is paving Earth with death and turning Earth, each day, more and more like Mars. The only grave issue facing all of mankind is ZERO POPULATION! Man is burying, slathering, scraping and deforesting the face and body of Earth.

phantom,

the discussion is about federal taxes, and I used the $10,000 figure to illustrate a point. (If I thought that adding an employee would only net me $1000 per year, I would probably not bother).

I was arguing against the assertion made by some that business owners will not hire people if the top tax rate is raised. Family leave is already law and state and local taxes are taken out as expenses before profit is calculated, and are not significantly affected by the number of employees I have.

but thanks for your interest.

back to my original thought....If my net profit increases by $10000 by adding an employee, and the tax rate on that profit is 35%, then I have to choose between hiring the person, paying $3500 in additional taxes and putting $6500 in additional profits into my bank account versus not hiring the person, not putting $6500 in additional profits into my bank account, and having the satisfaction that I avoided $3500 in taxes.

For a small business person, refraining from hiring someone in order to avoid paying increased income taxes is illogical.

"you seem intelligent and articulate, and not prone to flame-throwing, so I'll ask you a question.
how can you still support trickle down economics?? the premise that by giving tax breaks to the wealthy you're helping the economy. Everyone knows, or should know, that our economy is driven primarily by consumerism. Obama's tax plan will put more money in the hands of millions of people with incomes less than $250K. These people will turn around and spend that money. This will lift the economy. It worked under Clinton. Trickle down has failed miserably under Bush."

Thanks, and I'll happily answer your question. You are ignoring the source of the money put into the pockets of the poor, as many have been doing. You seem to assume that I believe tax breaks to the wealthy help the economy. Not true, though I support the current so-called tax breaks that still require the wealthy to pay a higher percentage than the rest. Let's compare what happens with McCain's policy versus Obama's.
First, we hold the single highest corporate tax rate in the world right now, more than double that of the second highest. It's safe to assume and very difficult to argue against this being one of the primary causes of our outsourcing issues. When we take 35%, and the average is 5%-8% throughout most of the world, the additional costs to keep employees overseas is less than the cost to maintain those jobs here in the states. The first step to reducing that outsourcing problem, therefore, is to reduce that corporate tax rate. It is NOT a tax break, it is simply changing the tax rate to align with the current economy. Many businesses, after figuring in late costs dropped back into the company, do not even see that 35% to pay, outsourcing is oftentimes a forced issue among businesses that would prefer to keep jobs here where there isn't the additional problems and costs of working from multiple locations around the world.
Now, take that world record corporate tax and add in additional taxes to executive incomes. What do you think would happen in this situation? Well, we've already faced similar situations before, so I'll just speak from an economic and historical view at the same time. The income tax is, for any big business, nothing more than an additional tax on the business itself, requiring additional costs to maintain the same rate of income for their higher level employees. To meet these new government rates, immediate consumer cost increases are established, with gradual flinch changes such as reductions in job levels to reduce those costs in order to pay new rates. So what really happens when you raise taxes on the rich while maintaining a steady corporate rate such as ours, is that the poor and middle class see continued strong outsourcing combined with higher costs. This shows that the tax on the wealthy hurts not only the rich and big business, but the poor and middle class as well.
Now, as far as putting money in the hands of people with less than $250,000...well, if that money came from nowhere then it would be a good thing; otherwise, it's very harmful. You have to realize that the economy cannot be governed under a single approach regardless of economic situations. The single most effective method to tax businesses and the wealthy is to base tax rates on profit margins. Just to make up a number, let's say a business is seeing a 10% profit after all costs are figured. After a time, their profits rise to 15%. Now, if you take that additional 5%, you're maintaining steady costs and allowing the business to prosper as before, allowing for continued job growth at the same previous rate. If their profit reduces to 7% and you STILL take 5%, you're leaving 2% for business growth and causing job loss and reductions to compensate for the marginal return, in expectations of greater business failings. Economic policy is ALL about timing, and Obama's policies are VERY harmful given today's economic times. You CANNOT just put more money in the pockets of the poor and middle class, taking that money from the wealthy, for the reasons shown above. To simplify, government takes $10 from a business, keeps $5 and gives $5 to the poor, but the business raises costs by $10 to compensate, costing an additional $5 for the poor, who can no longer afford the product and stop purchasing, leading to even greater job loss and continued problems until a new economic policy is set, which is what is continually done when these policies are practiced. We are seeing it now with Bush failing to reduce the world record corporate tax, and we are LONG past the time for this to be reduced. Not reducing it, and compounding the situation by taking even MORE (Obama's tax proposal), has no potential to do anything but hurt the poor and middle class. I've seen this happen, I've lived out of a car because of it, and I'm budgeting to meet the most basic of expenses still to this day, not wanting to end up back in that situation.
Giving money to the poor and middle class, believing that they will spend the money and the economy will be lifted, is ignoring one main fact...the money comes from somewhere, and if costs go up and jobs are lost because of where that money comes from, the additional costs will make it so people STILL can't afford to spend that money, and the value of the dollar will simply be deflated. Extra money means nothing when it becomes worth less, except that the people who don't receive that assistance will also pay the additional costs and it WILL trickle back down to everyone else. Trickle down economics is VERY sound, not under the misleading definition that it means to give more to the rich so they can lower costs to the poor, but under the full definition of supporting business growth to bring more jobs into the marketplace to allow for more to purchase goods and thus bring about a lower consumer cost for all, along with greater chances to move out of poverty.
Kind of a long answer, sorry, but I'm used to lengthy debates, on paper and in front of a microphone, so I find that short little blogs often say too little. Definitely like to see your response though, what I seek here is for people with at least SOME understanding to explain why they feel maintaining the single highest corporate tax rate in the world while simultaneously increasing taxes on the wealthy would help, well, anyone. Usually, the answer is something to the effect of, "poor get more money, rich get screwed, yay for sticking it to the greedy," which of course says absolutely nothing and shows no understanding of consequences and how each financial class is entirely dependent on the others. If you do reply and I don't give one back, I'm sorry. No Internet at my dingy little flat during the week (I live somewhere else during the weekend since my job is three and a half to four and a half hours from home - field assignments can be a pain in the butt, but at least they pay for my little room here during the week), and I can only get on here at work when I have a few spare minutes alone. I will of course try and pop back on again, if I'm able.

"I was arguing against the assertion made by some that business owners will not hire people if the top tax rate is raised."

Of course, outsourcing is the result of a means to hire labor with less cost, so when taxes reach a point where the cost to keep the work here at home is greater than the cost to maintain them overseas, it makes more sense to send them elsewhere. For those who do work overseas but pay US taxes (sent overseas but hired in the states), you need to consider that income is subject to the cost of living in different areas. In California, for example, the cost of living is higher than in Texas, but the average salary rate for the same job description is also significantly higher. When a tax rate is based on salary, increasing as wages increase, and not being an equal percentage for everyone, there is a greater incentive to position the employee in a location where the average salary rates are much lower, to not only reduce direct income costs, but to reduce government rates as well. To use California as an example, this is why many technology companies maintain based outside the state, actually Texas being a popular substation for many companies to reduce costs. When a tax rate reaches a certain point, establishing a lower income elsewhere in the world but with the increased cost of international maintenance is preferential to maintaining a higher income with a higher tax bracket but lower international costs. It boils down to a factor of comparisons. There is a threshold where government rates push overseas moves as a preferential decision, and oftentimes a necessary decision. Youre example regarding the ten grand can also be used to show how employee costs can amount to no increase in net profits caused by that individual employee, the continued corporate tax rate and additional taxes on the individual therefore causing MORE damage than a lower tax rate. The safest bet is always to refrain from increased taxed during a time of high outsourcing and poor economic conditions, increases are only viable during period of high economic boosts, such as during the Clinton years and the technology boom that put so much back in peoples' pockets.

Larry,

OK, so using your $10,000 profit where $3500 (now) or $3900 (OBAMA plan) goes to fed taxes leaving either $6100 or $6500 profit means that an employer should hire someone. Why stop at 39%? Why not take 50% tax rate after all that would leave $5000 profit. How about 75% tax, that leaves $2500 profit. I assume from your answer to me about using a $1000 profit that you would not agree with a 90% top rate.

Next, I think you gloss over way too much. How does any employer know that a new employee will provide a $10,000 profit. How much money does the employer have to put up front to hire, train and pay ALL THE COST associated with an employee? What if this make-believe employee that is generating this $10,000 profit is not the first one hired? What if the employer has to go through the expense of hiring and training etc 2 or 3 to find this one good one who generates this profit?

Finally, why should the federal government get an almost 40/60 split with the employer when the gov has NO RISK involved but just sits in DC taking their "fair?????" share. Your scenario is way too simplistic in my mind.

Congratulations to you. How about the rest of the country??

Does it bother you that your fellow American is suffering? Does it bother you that young people are dying in wars falsely created by the GOP?

Tell us about what a good Christian you are...that's the part of the GOP fantasy story that I like the most...

actually Obama was poor during the Clinton years and became rich during the Bush years so they can't have been that bad for libs.

I have to go do something really important right now so I will be back. I have to go take out my dogs.

Careful phantom, because things are gettin so bad under the GOP that a soon2be-impoverished heartless Republican named doubleyou-415015 just might kidnap your dogs for his dinner :|

Lu,

Republicans really, and do mean REALLY, don't care about anyone else, or even the country they live in. All that matters is themselves.

They are the very epitome of greed and self centeredness.

Yes. Republicans are truly self-centered people. Take John McCain for instance. He so selfishly volunteered to put his life on the line because he believed in his country in a time when the country didn't believe in itself. Then when he was captured and tortured, he selfishly decided to stay instead of going home before others when offered the chance. THEN, on top of his already blatant self-centered attitude, he spent the next 20-odd years serving the country in the senate saying no to BOTH parties self-interests when it was at the expense of the nation. Clearly a jerk.

For the daft among you (that means all liberals), that was sarcasm. You people disgust me. I'm a military veteran who puts my life on the line every day to make sure the free speech you enjoy throwing back in my face so much is still there tomorrow when you wake up. You worship Obama who has put out NOTHING tangible and claims he has all these great ideas that will bring about CHANGE?? He's the slimiest politician from the most corrupt city in America and you think he's going to be different just because (don't kid yourselves, hipocrites) he's black?? That's what I love about Democrats. They think with nothing but emotion, no reason, and think that because they think with their hearts, that makes them 1) right and 2) morally superior. News flash: thinking with your heart is a cliche that leads to trouble 99% of the time when actually performed. I see in this forum nothing but liberals who claim anything the Republicans say is a lie, offer nothing to back it up, and then throw out a bunch of insults to anyone who challenges their belief. You know what a person is who goes with whatever they hear because it sounds good?? Brainwashed.

When will you sheep ever learn? Democrats do nothing but screw up the country when they go crazy because they finally got into office... THEN when the Republicans are left to pick up the pieces, you claim it's THEY who are to blame. You should all be ashamed of yourselves for being so blind. And if this comment doesn't make it to the post, it's because Big Brother (i.e. this liberal media venue) decided my thinking wasn't in line enough to warrant being read (and thus, proved my point).

you were probably shorting stocks in AIG and then bitching about having to bail them out today...simple Repubs, always putting self before country.

"Republicans really, and do mean REALLY, don't care about anyone else, or even the country they live in. All that matters is themselves."

And Democrats care about how well the poor and middle class do in the long run? Obviously not, since they go after businesses without the slightest regard for how this affects the poor and middle class. I like having work, I make barely over $30,000 right now and I'd like to at least have that. So what incentive is there to vote for a Democrat that proposes to maintain the current world record corporate tax rate that causes most of our outsourcing problems, while compounding the problem by ALSO increasing taxes on those executive incomes? How is THAT caring about anyone else, by taking away our jobs and increasing our costs? I'll stick with the Republicans this time around, who at least show a marginal understanding that the poor and middle class are 100% dependent on businesses doing well, and thus the BEST course of action is to work on boosting business growth, NOT hurting it. Supporting big business is not automatically being against the poor and middle class, that bogus thought is what will ruin this country. We need to strongly support business growth, so that we CAN help everyone else. If you just take from the rich to give to the poor, you're doing nothing but taking the long way around to take from the poor as well, as they end up paying everything they're given back in full, with interest. Help every financial class, or hurt them all, there's no other way around it...you cannot attack one group without negative consequences for them all, and Obama promises to attack one group is proof positive that he doesn't care in the slightest about the poor or the middle class. The "I'm going to take from the rich so that you can have more" garbage is absolute bull, and it will ruin lives. My job ends next month, and I have no backup waiting for me. I can't afford someone like Obama in office that doesn't care in the slightest about whether I work or not, someone who simply wants to wave a few dollars in the faces of the poor and gain popularity while taking attention away from the fact that the few dollars he's flashing won't cover the increased costs resulting from where that money comes from. It's obvious at this point, Democrats are the ones who don't care (political ones, many average Democrats simply have no understanding of how every financial class is tied together and thus base opinions on stereotypes and ignorace, such as believing big business plots how to rob the poor and middle class even though big business is 100% dependent on them doing well in order to see the biggest profits and thus searches for ways to BOOST the middle class), they're the ones who couldn't care less about me or my need for a job, since they already their nice cozy jobs preaching about how they're helping the little people the whole time they're doing things that screw us over. Sorry, but I'm not rich enough and my job isn't stable enough to even begin to consider voting Democrat. I need work, I vote for the party that is actually proposing ways to bring that work back home.

So what are you trying to say, Beckwolf? = that we should give the GOP's policies another 8 years to work under the able-stewardship of McCain & his economic advisor Phil Gramm???

- u know i just fell off my bed LOLing at you, right hon?

I seriously doubt that even the Communist Chinese Government could so rapidly annihilate the Middle & Lower classes like what the GOP has done here in America. & Dont get me wrong, both the Dems & myself are Capitalists. We're just not dumb like the current crop of GOP.

And i'm certain that GWBush is more capable than John McCain is, when it comes to the economy. So go figure.

BTW, i saw the l8est Forbes report on America's richest/Billionaires = most of the uber rich are also feeling the pinch, & many have lost billions each(example, Bill Gates' worth is down by 2 billion). .. & some have even been wiped out.

So all those tax breaks GWBush gave to the uber-rich has come to Naught (zero).
So Beckwolf, your entire argument is a Dud.

REPUBLICANS REALLY DO CARE ABOUT PEOPLE, OR THEY WOULDN'T BE SO DEADSET FOR STOPPING MR ME, BARRACK OBAMA!

doubleyou...Don't toot your horn too loudly because what you have can be easily taken away. And under Republican rule, it may be a little quicker than you think.

Pat G, Republicans only care about lying their way into power so they can rob, steal, blunder, warmonger & commit fraud to enrich themselves & their corporate buddies while the rest of the country sinks irreversibly into debt & financial oblivion.

Roxanne,
Nice try, but still so slanted to the left that you let hate set your values.

Proudliberal....you should be banned from the forum. Go home to Russia....please....just go. We will take a collection and get you a ticket...

Pat G, u wanna talk about "slanting the facts??"
Are u willing to admit that Palin is not qualified to be Vice Prez?

If u still say she is qualified, then you need to go read where a SMART Gop-er Chuck Hagel declare that "it's a stretch to say Palin is qualified"

That is very OBVIOUS to everyone in America & thru-out the Entire world who isn't a GOP Stooge.

Also remember that she got her degree from a community college after flunking out of FOUR other colleges.
& you want to entrust her with a Two Trillion dollar economy that is on the Rocks if cluelessMcCain's past serious health problems & age catch up to him???

& btw, post #6.13 is true of the current occupants of the White House & from widespread reports, also true of the current Governor of Alaska.
Now go & buy yourself a $400 pair of designer Japanese glasses at taxPayer's expense so that you can see the facts more clearly, ok hon.

Lu, I've said it for years. Only 3 classes of Americans should be voting for the old guard and Mac, the donald trumps of America; the brainwashed drones of the lowest class in America that are the rednecks, hicks and bumpkins, those most easily programmed with garbage slogans and nouns, like socialist and commie, and Earth-haters and killers that love fetuses more than the human race and Earth, their only home.

All the rest of America should be enthralled and thrilled to have Obama onboard, a thinking man for thinking Americans.

Rednecks don't vote.

"So what are you trying to say, Beckwolf? = that we should give the GOP's policies another 8 years to work under the able-stewardship of McCain & his economic advisor Phil Gramm???"

No, I'm saying that we should actually use the GOP's policies, and NOT Bush's. We haven't had eight years of Republican ideals in the slightest. If we had been, do you really think we'd currently have the single highest corporate tax rate out of every nation in the entire world? Explain to me how THAT'S following Republican values. What we should do is NOT vote in the left-wing version of Bush, not vote in someone who pushes policy that will hurt every single financial class in the long run. Obama's policies alternate between carbon copies of Bush (maintaining that high corporate tax rate that causes our outsourcing problems), and the polar opposite, but if you take from the rich such as he proposes, you hurt the poor and middle class even more than simply taking straight from them, such as the moronic proposals from Bush. Only by reducing those rates and focusing on business growth (VERY different than Bush's last few years) can the poor and middle class be picked back up. Feel free to keep laughing at common sense, it just makes you look a little crazy.

"Pat G, u wanna talk about "slanting the facts??"
Are u willing to admit that Palin is not qualified to be Vice Prez?"

Palin is unqualified, Obama is less qualified than Palin even (being the least qualified among the current presidential and vp candidates), Biden sticks his foot in his mouth and only shoots for popularity and free rides, and McCain is old. There, done, now how about focusing on actual policies, like those designed to reduce outsourcing and boost business growth and all that?

Unfortunately they do.

Japan's corporate tax rate is higher than our's at 39.5%. And yet Japan's economy has been growing at 2% & greater every year since 2003 to 2008.

There are many other factors at play including our suffocating debt that Bush & McCain(voted with Bush over 90% of the time) has more than doubled to a mindBoggling near TEN Trillion dollars,... & U.S. citizens' way too low to non-existent savings rate.

And the straw that broke the camel's back of our economy is certainly the unnecessary war in Iraq, that once again your candidate McCain whole-heartedly supported, that has sucked up over 800 billion dollars in direct costs.
If the GOP had Obama's brains & judgement, then we would still have that trillion dollars that we blew looking for non-existent WMDs.

However, you are talking as if corporate taxes is the main reason for our stagnant , imploding economy & not the stupid decisions of your older, "wiser", more-experienced GOP leaders like Bush, Cheney & John McCain.
You are also ignoring the rapacious greed of our corporate CEOs who will (& have!) in the long term run our economy into the ground so as to make a quick buck. Those NINJA mortgage loans comes to my mind, for example.
You know, those same corporate criminals that your older "wiser" McCain has protected from Regulation, his ENTIRE political life???
Until 2 days ago, he suddenly Flip-Flopped & decided that some amount of Regulating of the crooks on Wall St is needed.

& I will take Obama's Harvard Degree, & his decade as an Illinois State senator anyday over McCain's proven Incompetence in naval academy & the numerous planes he crashed before getting shot down in Vietnam.
& I will also take Obama's qualifications anyday over Palin who flunked out of 4 colleges before she managed to scrape up a degree from a community college..
& i will take Obama's correct Judgement on the most expensive, stupidest & biggest blunder ever made by any politician in U.S. history - his judgement on the Iraq war, that McCain wholeheartedly supported & that Palin called a "Task from God".

You need to admit that the current and prospective crop of GOP leaders are a set of Dumbasses who have Destroyed the American dream, ok Beckwolf sweetheart.

Sherry - you're always posting DEM comments on here...get a real job!

Obama will be change for sure; the first islamic terrorist in the presidential office.

The above statement is a complete and filthy lie. I suspect the person posting it knows it to be one though.

Why is it that the GOP always has to use lies and racial slander?? If you feel that your party has legitimate plans for the country, why don't you articulate them?

Why does the GOP always have to lie???

Obama and Biden have the intelligence, education, and dedication to their country to do what is best for their fellow citizens.

Why is it that the GOP always has to use lies and racial slander??

Because lies and slander and racism are all they have left. They can't talk about the issues (at least not with out telling more lies) because they're the ones who have screwed America up so much.

There are zero connections between Barack and terroism. None. Nada. Zip. Not a single one.

Paul, what a completely sick thing to say.

Paul is correct. Please see what Obama tried to help pull off in Kenya this year. He is obviously an Islamist/Marxist sympathizer. He has Kenyan citizenship. He supported his cousin Odinga (Luo tribe--a tribe of Obama's father that captured slaves and sold them to slavers) in his attempt to win a presidential race in Kenya and overthrow a President that was/is a firm US Ally in that part of the world. Obama was boots on the ground campaigning for this guy who is a Marxist (his son is named Fidel after Castro) and an Islamist (He signed an MOU with the Islamic tribes that he would install Sharia--Islamic law in all of Kenya within one year). Kenya is an 85% Christian country and Obama supported putting it under Islamic/Sharia law!!! The result was that Odinga lost and started an uprising of Luo and related tribes on a rampage like in Rwanda where the Luo were chopping up their neighbors with machetes and burning the elderly and children alive in a couple of churches where they had fled for "sanctuary." This is the real Obama. If you plan to vote for him please look up these sources first. He is a very frightening man indeed. Marxism has failed! We don't need it or want it here! Islamists are our enemies! We don't need a president who fails to see the threat of Islamic Terrorism.

Just what do you really think he has in mind for us.

Doubt what I am saying? Check out the New York Sun special report on Jan. 11, 2008 which details most of this sordid story. Then google "Obama Odinga Kenya." There are also photos of Obama campaigning for Odinga on YouTube.

They just need to make people take a proficiency test before they have their children making stuff unlocked.

Yesterday someone here posted a link, is very interesting to see how republicans are destroying this country, here is the link, how the republicans increased the national debt under the republicans, why they keep doing it and how it goes down under democrats.

Marie you are delusional. Remember "The Shah of Iran" was a trusted ally too, look what good that did us.

Besides, I'll talk a muslim that keeps his promises over a phony christian anyday...

so much for you folks reaching for the centrists... everyone who doesnt agree with your christian extremist views is a muslim or un-american or not american enough or not american at all according to you...

give it a break...whats McClueless's economic plan of action?????????????? Cut taxes and enslave our children to the bankers a little more ????????

justmyopinion-Obama's tax plan of tax the wealthy decreases federal revenue to pay down the debt!! That is a FACT. Yet he proposes programs such as his Healthcare Plan, etc. Where the hell is going to get this money? This is why he is already backtracking. His plan is a phony-and you liberals are eating it up! The only way he will be able to balance anything is to either TAX everyone, which he has already voted 94 times to do, or he will start cutting programs, which is what Clinton did. Yet you need to remember that Clinton cut our Military and Intelligence spending almost in half, and yet you guys still want to blame Bush for 9/11 (it took the terrorists 8 years to plan the attacks). Now I'm not pointing the finger at the DEMs for 9/11, etc. But in the world we now live in, we can't afford to cut Military/Intelligence spending, and Obama has already hinted to doing that in a MySpace ad last year.

The lies that spew from Marie Thomson & Paul-322305 reminds me of the exact same lies that Bush, Cheney & Karl Rove spewed forth before they led us all into Iraq.

Almost a trillion dollars-in-iraq, 4000+ Americans dead & a Colossal national debt of almost 10 Trillion dollars afterwards, & the GOP and their supporters still have not learned their lesson, to stop with the blatant lying.

Sherry,
Nice try, but I saw that answer on the Democratic blog page. Do you have a personal opinion, or do they have to give it to you?

4 more years of the GOP & their lies, fraud & Incompetence, & i'm afraid we will all be living in a Debt-riddled, poverty-stricken Banana Republic United States of America, with China & "Old Europe" as our bankers, creditors & masters...

...oops! I almost forgot - much of that is already occurring!

Roxanne2Sweet-unfortunately the Europeans have owned our banking system for a very long time. The Federal Reserve which has bailed out several corporations, is a PRIVATELY owned organization, and the people who own it are from Europe. The banking system in this country is broken and has been broken for a long time. So blaming Bush for all of it is simply irresponsible. Yes, I agree he has been part of the problem, but just a piece. The decline in value of our dollar has been every president's and congressman's fault since the Nixon Administration when he passed legislature to take our currency off the gold standard. Now, in my opinion, the only candidate today who gets this is Ron Paul. However, I could never vote for him because of his foreign policy stance. I honestly feel that the banking industry needs to fail so it can finally correct itself. It has been a long time coming and all these bailouts today will only postpone the inevitable.

I agree with you to a degree, BUT, things sure were ALOT better under the last Dem admin's policies than it is now under this current GOP Admin's policies.

& the GOP's resistance to regulating Wall St., especially McCain's career-long support of de-regulation, scares my pants off me.

I agree that things were better under Clinton. There are a lot of factors for this: such as being at war, telecom bubble breaking, etc. I am one that believes in less regulation when it comes to WallStreet because I don't like the government stepping in everyone's business. I just want to know what has happened to having people in charge of companies that are morally and ethically strong. I personally hold the shareholders of these companies responsible, because their the ones putting these corrupt people in position. When you have the CEO of Lehman earning 100M over the past 3 yrs. and the company goes bankrupt, there is a HUGE problem! These people should be investigated and thrown in jail.

Oh, quit your bitchin'. You're just irritated that this election will not be decided by the fevered faithful on either side. It will instead be decided by politically independent, socially centrist women who make up the middle column. Women who would love to vote Democrat (at least I would) but who gag on these elitist, pseudo-intellectual, left fringe twits you keep trying to force down our throats. Let's review: first there was Al "Is the mother ship here yet?" Gore. Then we had John "Wind surfing, flip flopping, metrosexual, what's my opinion today?" Kerry. Now it's Barack " The more you know about me and my past, the more you'll just wish you'd listened to my speeches and remained blissfully ignorant" Obama. Here's a hot tip. PICK SOMEONE IN THE MIDDLE.

My review of the four current candidates

Q: What's the difference between Joe Biden and any other three decade, Beltway windbag?
A: Slightly more liberal.

Q: What's the difference between Sarah Palin and a fourth grade primer on How To Be Vice President?
A: In real life she's marginally more amusing, sometimes intentionally and sometimes not.

Q: What's the difference between Barack Obama and a cardboard cutout of Barack Obama?
A: In real life he can arrange his handsome features into both a charming smile and an appropriately grave expression. After that, the differences are less.

Q: What's the difference between John McCain today and the John McCain of eight years ago who was a center aisle guy and a real reformer?
A: A permanently scarred psyche from eight years of puckering up for GWB so he could get this frickin' nomination.

Oh, and for heaven's sake, grow a sense of humor.

You made my point for me, Independent Voter - it's that too many of our corporate Kingpins are plain & simply Crooks in business suits.

Hence why we need regulation on Wall St.

I have a few friends whose older relatives are Wall St execs & stockbrokers, & you would be surprised how many of them occasionbally dabble in insider trading.

Ethics & morality generally comes a distant 2nd to making $$$ for one's own self & buddies, on Wall St.

Why do you think that the hot new business trend is to ship/out-source American jobs?

= Profits always come 1st, & the welfare of America's hard-working honest citizens comes 2nd.

P.S. @ cjmurph

I do have a sense of humor...

...but the problem is that your "jokes" are too lame. :)

Oh, Roxanne, if only they were jokes. I originally was very excited by Obama. He talked about hope and unity and change. Hey, I'm for hope and unity and change.

Unfortunately, the more I know, the less impressed Ive become. Do you know how Obama got in the Illinois legislature? Are you aware that he was the only candidate on the ballot? Yep, he got all the other candidates disqualified, including former Senator Alice Palmer. When he wasn't voting present, he got his name on some very impressive legislation. Do you know the term "billjacking"? You would if you had served in the Illinois legislature.

Do you think he's an agent of change? Did you read Dennis Byrne's September 16 article in the Chicago Tribune? He looks an awful lot to me like a "go along to get along" machine politician.

I know of no instance where he has bucked the powers that be in his party, ever. Truth be told, I am not crazy about the economic plans of either party, but his tax increases for business trouble me. It just seems inherently counter productive for a flailing economy. His positions on national defense are profoundly disturbing to me, as well.

He is one of the most gifted speakers I have ever heard and I would really like to like him and have confidence in him. But, somehow, I don't.

cjmurph, smart people are not buying what you're trying to "sell" = 4 to 8 more years of GOP greed, lies, cover-ups, warmongering, incompetence , vindictiveness, law-breaking, and war-profiteering on the corpses of 4000 of our troops in the oil-rich desert of Iraq, while our national debt is inflated by multiple Trillions of dollars that the taxPayers are gonna get Shafted with sooner or l8er.

Cjmurph, you need to stop taking the Moose Stew, ok hon? because you obviously cannot handle it.

I don't believe I said I was voting for McCain, hon. I'm still considering my options. But I definitely don't buy into this rabid dem talking point that McCain and Bush are the same guy. You can say it over and over but that just doesn't make it true. So, I'm still considering. And if you think "He's not a Republican" is a good enough reason to vote for Obama, knock yourself out. As far as I can tell, that would be your most substantive reason.

cjmurph, in my humble opinion, GWBush is eminentley more qualified at running our economy than both McCain & Palin are.

Bush earned a backelor's degree at Yale university.

Can you ever see McCain or Palin earning a degree at an Ivy League school even if their very lives depended on it???

In addition, their support & comments on Bush's uber Blunder in Iraq proves that Palin & McCain would have made even worse Judgements if they had been the ones in charge for the last 8 years.

McCain is also a more fervent believer than GWBush is, of giving the rapacious mercenary capitalists on Wall St & in CEO suites thru-out America, even more free reign with even less government regulation.

= under a mccain admin, the net result would have been an even greater crises than now faces us in the economy. Due to no early corrective measures and regulations to stave off a growing problem which has now ballooned into a looming catastrophe.

One trillion in Iraq & now another Trillion to solve the problems of Wall Street's greed. & yet Bush is much more qualified than McCain is, who agrees with Bush over 90% of the time, by his OWN Admission.

& you still believe that a Much Less qualified GOP Prez who believes in even less supervision of corrupt greedy corporate bigshots, is the answer?

U really want to give such policies & gross Idiocy another 4 more years?

Well, by all means, go ahead. That's what we already did the last 8 years and now it's costing us taxPayers Trillions at a time when we are already financially broke!

Don't get me wrong = i'm not knocking anyone who graduated bottom of their class or who can barely get a degree from even a community college.
But if i graduated at the bottom of my class of over 800, & was barely capable of getting a degree from the most lackluster college, then i would consider anyone who voted me to take charge of a trillion $ + economy thats teetering on the brink of armageddon, a total and utter idiot for putting me in that position. Worse on a party platform whose core policies of not reigning in CEO fraud early, have created the problems facing that ailing economy!

The party of small government and Fiscal Responsibility my big red Arse.

Which in turn means McCain, like bush, is a failure.

He can't undo voting with Bushie 90% of the time.

How many times will the "voted with Bush 90% of the time" line be beaten to death on here? What percentage of the time did Obama vote the democrat line? It's the most stupid of the stupid arguments here. Almost as bad as McCain is a LIAR (or lier as many of you spell it). As if Obama has been truthful thoughout this campaign.

You people should spend more time learning the facts and less time spouting the same talking points over and over again. It would really be nice to come here and find thought provoking debate. Instead, all I find is a bunch of emotion-fueled, unfounded garbage.

Can we raise the level of debate above childish blame and name-calling?

I seriously doubt it!

bbagwell-you hit the nail on the head! Obama has voted the liberal party line 97%. The dems want to tie the failure of the last 8 years to Bush/McCain yet the last 2 have been democratically run. What change did they bring? Absolutely zero! Where is all the hoopla over Barney Frank, liberal Dem, who was in charge of oversight of Frannie/ Freddie? It is very well know that the Republicans at the time wanted more regulation of the mortagage industry, but Frank and the Dems resisted. This will all come out soon enough (MSNBC wont report it). Also Obama will take a huge hit with his association to Jim Johnson who was tapped to lead his VP search. Johnson was responsible for running Fannie/Freddie. Also, Raines is "currently" one of Obama's leading economic advisors, and this man also was responsible with running Fannie/Freddie. Where is the front page exposing this?? It is simply because the media is BIASED!!!!!

bbagwell,
Look at Obama's voting record, he didn't vote at all 90% of the time. At least one candidate was will to make a choice.
!

bbagwell and independent voter,

Let me use small words: It is OK that Obama votes with the Democratic Party, even if 100%. He is not separating himself from them.

The problem with McSame voting 90% with the Shrub is that McSame says he is different from, separate from, not agreeing with the Shrub.

So, to say one thing and do another is a form of lying.

Now, is it clear?

Hey Rick-I thought your candidate was running a campaign on change?!!!! WHAT CHANGE? That is my point. He and the DEMS have had two years to Change the direction of this country. So are you saying that the dem's theme of the 2006 congressional race of "ending the war" should NOT be brought into question? Were they liars? They had their chance to end it and they lacked the balls to cancel funding for our troops (my hope is because they realized they would be surrendering). I honestly can give you a long list about how many times McCain has separated from his party. To name a few the past 8 years alone: He voted against the tax cuts in 2002 because the Bill did not crack down on spending (well today we can agree that he was correct in that assessment), and he was ALWAYS vocal about how the Bush Administration was wrong with the way the war was being fought. He hated Rumsfeld, who was Cheney's man, and called for his resignation way before any Democrats voiced their disapproval. How about McCain/Feingold? I could keep going on and on!!!

So now let me use small words for you. What CHANGE will Obama bring? Will he just tax the wealthy? He has already started backing away from this pledge because he realizes how dangerous it is with the current economy. Will he finally end the war? At this point both McCain and Obama are on the same page. A withdrawal time-line, which by the way we could argue was ONLY allowable due to current conditions on the ground which was a direct result of the Surge working (which McCain called for and supported and Obama called a disastrous decision at the time).

Now, is it clear?

bagwell, it's not about the party it's about the policies.

mccain agrees with bush's policies. policies that have been proven failures.

notice no one said that mccain voted with republicans (and yet you counter that obama voted with democrats?). we are talking about a person, not a party.

a person who has led this country to disaster through policies that mccain agrees with (90% of the time)

The ole John McCain is no different than the one you are seeing. Bush just was better at it than he was 8 long years ago. Anything to get elected. Also a Republican Union member is more rare than a one legged Icelanidic sun worshiper. He is a Union buster like the rest of the GOP.

"Look at Obama's voting record, he didn't vote at all 90% of the time."

Ummm, he voted present a bit less than 2% of the time, and with the Democrats 97% of the time, so there isn't 90% left. Not that voting with the party says too much, McCain voted with Bush around 85% of the time (that includes close to 20% of that being things unrelated to politics like voting to make a sports team national champions), but has shows very little support for the methods those policies are implemented. A vote for a policy is not a vote for the actions resulting from those policies. McCain remains a solid example on this. Most of the time, the policies pushed by Bush had the potential to be beneficial to the poor and middle class. Unfortunately, there were always negatives as well, but the positive trumped the negative. Once these were voted on (and Democrats voted with them nearly as much as McCain), the failure was in the poor implementation, additional costs added and portions ignored. As someone making barely over $30 grand a year and formerly living out of a car, I would voted the same as McCain most of the time, and then like McCain, gone after Bush for his poor implementation of those policies, resulting in a reversal on their intentions. I can give Obama the benefit of the doubt for some of that 97%. A few of the proposals were for things nobody should have voted for who cared in the slightest about the long term consequences, but many of them were fundamentally sound. Supporting a bill and supporting the implementation of that bill are entirely separate issues, and a different President pushing the same bills would have brought drastically different results.

Why does the GOP always have to lie???

I keep asking the same question, but none of you answer me.

Aren't you proud of yourselves?? You live a life of lies, are you teaching those morals to your children??

Why don't you tell me how it is that you feel compelled to spend your time making up lies??? If you have nothing to do, why don't you volunteer in your community? Why don't you try to make the world a better place??

T&R - I Love Your Post :)..Now that's the kind of reporting the NYT should try. There are soooo many stories left to be "unveiled" about Obama...like his gay lover who was mysteriously killed when he started talking...or perhaps we should focus on how Obama is going to be the next Hitler.

That's not reporting, that's called making it up as you go along. The only thing republicans are actually good at.

Hey mscottring, speaking of making it up as you go along, remember the "Trig is Palin's daughter's son" deal. I don't believe you can blame the Republicans for that one.

It's ok to make it up if you are democratic.

Obama is going to be the next Hitler?!?!?!? My god, we better alert the media, everyone will want to know. Get Bill Orally and the Rush, we gotta do something NOW! Get Tom Cruise to plant a bomb! Hurry!

"When in danger,
When in doubt,
Run in circles,
Scream and shout."

I have often felt that there is something genetically wrong with the Repubs, in that scandals and lies seem to be part of their nature, it seems to come so naturally.

Now I feel I must define something: I use "Repub" as a euphemism for "NeoCon." The real '60s and '70s Goldwater Republican Conservatives have almost become extinct. If you will find Leonard Pitts' column from last Sunday wherein he discusses the Intellectual Dishonesty of the present Repubs, he explains it quite well.

US Freedom-
I bet you are a Michael Savage Freak. Spewing that same sewage proves your intellectual bankruptcy.

Obama could have been a very wealthy man if he had chosen to be, and he educated himself without help. Give him his due.

"Why does the GOP always have to lie???
I keep asking the same question, but none of you answer me.
Aren't you proud of yourselves?? You live a life of lies, are you teaching those morals to your children??"

Why answer when you're not actually really asking anything? Your question is rhetorical, it's meant as nothing more than a wild accusation. I can just as eaily associate it with Democrats and it would have just as much meaning. All I have to do is change one word, and the accuracy of the statement would remain the same.
If you call yourself a Republican, you live a life of lies...way to categorize tens of millions of people, that's credible....I would definitely teach Republican morals to my children if I had any. Kids, if you really want to help people in need, don't throw them bread crumbs, give them opportunities instead. If you want to bring jobs back to the country, don't think you can take from the rich to give to the poor without their being any consequences, use common sense and don't attack one group of people to help another. Don't let moral issues decide the best way to vote for our leaders, vote for the best leader that can help keep our businesses going and keep those in need working. Yeah, I'd be VERY proud to teach that to children, mine or anyone else's. Of course, most of that is plain old common sense that even kids could figure out for themselves if they weren't being thrown stereotypes and convinced that things people like you say hold any credibility whatsoever.

He published two books - books that he wrote himself.

LOL - Obama doesn't write anything himself!!

LOL - Obama doesn't write anything himself!!

The truth is that Barack wrote both of his books by himself. He also writes the bulk of his speeches too. That's the simple truth.

Keep drinking the kool-aide.....Obama is a fraud

No way does he write anything by himself. He can't even make a speech without a teleprompter. And how to do you know this anyway? Were you there when he wrote the speeches and books? He doesn't have time to do anything except frolic with the stars & all his corrupt friends and Listening to Ludacris, what a role model that is.

Poor republicans, can't believe there is anything possibly positive about Obama.

Believe what you like. He wrote his own books and writes the bulk of his own speeches. Though I can understand your cynicism, since the concept of an intelligent president is foreign to the GOP.

I'm still waiting to hear something positive.

Tell the truth and shame the devil and tell us why you really don't like Obama!

Jan, multiple people just told you many positives and your response was to stick your head in the sand, pretend they were lying and then say you didn't hear anything!

If you have your eyes closed, you shouldn't be surprised when you walk into a wall.

p.s. Obama's entire stump speech when on the campaign trail is given without a teleprompter and yes, he wrote it himself.

"He published two books - books that he wrote himself."

No offense, but this is a downright lie. I own his books, and the actual writer is given credit in BOTH of them. And in regards to his speeches, Obama has not written a single speech for himself throughout this election. The credit goes to his rather extensive speech writing team, a team that Obama himself has bragged on more than once. For the record, he has one of the largest speech writing teams of any presidential candidate in US history. I'm not insulting him (Biden, McCain, and Palin all have writers and have never written one for themselves, either), I'm not saying anything negative here, but I am pointing out the facts. I know that you support Obama, that much is obvious, but do you really think that making up assumptions or lying about him is the support he needs? Facts are facts, he did NOT write the books himself, proof written in the books themselves as well as his interviews discussing those books where he talked about the person that studied his past to write them...and he has not written any of his own speeches this election, proof positive against provided by Obama himself who showed his team of speech writers. No candidate writes their own speeches, lying by saying that one currently is does no good service to the candidate when you can be proven a liar so easily, as many associate the credibility of a candidate with the credibility of his supporters.

If the economy is so bad how did Obama become a millionaire during the last 8 years? while he was broke ass before Bush

SHNARF SNARF

Again; Obama wrote two books. Obama has released his tax returns. If you're interested in seeing where his money came from. We are still waiting for the tax returns from Cindy and Palin.

Palin wore a $2,500 jacket at the convention. How does a woman with 5 kids afford designer clothing??

So if McCain was so clueless, why did he try to reform Fannie Mae in 2005? This is from the Senate transcripts. This bill was proposed by Sen. Charles Hagel, a Nebraska Republican. You can look it up:

For years I have been concerned about the regulatory structure that governs Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac--known as Government-sponsored entities or GSEs--and the sheer magnitude of these companies and the role they play in the housing market. OFHEO's report this week does nothing to ease these concerns. In fact, the report does quite the contrary. OFHEO's report solidifies my view that the GSEs need to be reformed without delay.

I join as a cosponsor of the Federal Housing Enterprise Regulatory Reform Act of 2005, S. 190, to underscore my support for quick passage of GSE regulatory reform legislation. If Congress does not act, American taxpayers will continue to be exposed to the enormous risk that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac pose to the housing market, the overall financial system, and the economy as a whole.

I urge my colleagues to support swift action on this GSE reform legislation.

Give it up Ganice22, these people don't want to hear the real truth, only the empty promises made by someone nobody really knows.

Man, the morons are out tonight. Why is it that republicans are so completely uninformed?

Really, those pesky old facts are just too confusing.

Iraqi officals told newspapers that Obama told them not to make deal for troop withdrawl until after he is president!

Talk about TREASON!

Barak Obama, you are the unpatriotic one!

TREASON!

So why didn't this bill he proposed pass.....OH YEAH HIS PARTY IS PRO COPORATE....

Please, please, that's Senator No Clue.

We all know that the real meaning of "CHANGE" is to make an American of African decent to be the President of the United States.

That is the only CHANGE that they are talking about.

I don't understand prejudice whatsoever. After living in 37 countries it is obvious we are all alike.
Myself being of Caucasian descent; I would love to see a "Black" President succeed from deep in my heart.

But much more than that I wish we can stop the racial hatred on both sides:

I wish can remove the "Black" or saturation and hue description of any person. We are ALL of AFRICAN DECENT. Whether you realize it or not. We are all from the continent of Pangaea. When the earth cools the lands will fall back into the seas due to the "floating" effect of continental drift. This is scientific fact. The first thing you will notice is the beaches getting smaller and moving inland.

By the way: Global warming; It is a natural and normal occurrence as can be seen in the lands and in the long frozen ice. If you have flown in a plane at 32,000 feet you can clearly see that we and our cities are mere specs on this planet. A single volcano has more dramatic effect on the climate than our little puffs of smoke. (Except for Saddam's massive oil burning). It's simple "Ratio to Medium saturation" physics.

Spoken like a true Socialist Democrat.

It's ok to flip flop when you're a republican.

And as PAUL will explain, it's also ok to be a socialist when you're a republican. Isn't that right paul? Republicans have supported CORPORATE socialism for years, decades even, and they still do, costing taxpayers like you and I countless millions of dollars each and every year, Right paul? Paul?

Seams to me that the Congress sided with the GOP after seeing the same evidence.

I think Paul got frightened by the TRUTH.

Even CEO's don't listen to Linbaugh. He's too low class. He's for all the rednecks to listen to. Rednecks don't vote.

Thank you Jesus! You are correct. Their lies ARE video taped at every speaking gathering. A lot of the writers on this site should use their computers to GOOGLE information especially, before they come here to expose their IGNORANCE!

The Bottom line in this election IS RACE, RACE, RACE! It's not the issues, if that were true the campaigning would have been over.

McMummy/Palin are not the same they are WORSE LIARS than BUSH/CHENEY ever were!!!

C'mon Wilberta...stop playing the race card. Obama makes as great a presentation as any black man can make. I think it's frankly his past church that was racist! I listen to him, I really try, but as of yet I just don't buy his ideals of socialism government he's preaching. Sorry...

We can;t keep beating the race card...or the gender card. If Obamab doesn't win blacks will say "we're still not there yet", frankly I don't think that is fair. he didn;t get to where he is with just the black vote.

McCain is lying, but you're taking it a little too far to say he's lying more than Cheney.

Here are a few little facts for the blindly led Obama supporters out there. 1.) Selma got me born...
NOT EXACTLY: your parents felt safe enough to have you in 1961 - Selma had no effect on your birth, as Selma was in 1965.
(Google 'Obama Selma' for his full March 4, 2007 speech and articles about its various untruths.) 2.) My Father Was A Goat Herder . . NOT EXACTLY: he was a privileged, well educated youth, who went on to work with the Kenyan Government. 3.) My Father Was A Proud Freedom Fighter . . . NOT EXACTLY: he was part of one of the most corrupt and violent governments Kenya has ever had. 4.) My Family Has Strong Ties To African Freedom . . . NOT EXACTLY: your cousin Raila Odinga has created mass violence in attempting to overturn a legitimate election in 2007, in Kenya. It is the first widespread violence in decades. The current government is pro-American but Odinga wants to overthrow it and establish Muslim Sharia law. Your half-brother, Abongo Obama, is Odinga's follower. You interrupted your New Hampshire campaigning to speak to Odinga on the phone. Check out the following link for verification of that and for more. Obama's cousin Odinga in Kenya ran for president and tried to get Sharia Muslim law in place there. When Odinga lost the elections, his followers burned Christians' homes as well as men, women and children alive in a Christian church where they took refuge. Obama supported his cousin before the election process here started. (Google 'Obama and Odinga') 5.) My Grandmother Has Always Been A Christian . . .
NOT EXACTLY: she does her daily Salat prayers at 5 AM according to her own interviews. Christianity would not have supported her being one of 14 wives to 1 man. 6.) My Name is African Swahili . . .
NOT EXACTLY: your name is Arabic and 'Baraka' (from which Barack came) means 'blessed' in that language. Hussein is also Arabic and so is Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama is not half black. If elected, he would be the first Arab-American President, not the first black President. Barack Hussein Obama is 50% Caucasian from his mother's side, and 43.75% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro from his father's side.
While Barack Hussein Obama's father was from Kenya, his father's family were mainly Arabs.. Barack Hussein Obama's father was only 12.5% African Negro and 87.5% Arab (his father's birth certificate states he's Arab, not African Negro). From....and for more....go to..... 7.) I Never Practiced Islam . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you practiced it daily at school, where you were registered as a Muslim and kept that faith for 31 years -- until you changed the year before running for public office.
4-3-08 Article 'Obama was 'quite religious in Islam'' 8.) My School In Indonesia Was Christian . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you were registered as Muslim there and got in trouble in Koranic Studies for making faces (check your own book). February 28, 2008. Kristoff from the New York Times a year ago: 'Mr. Obama recalled the opening lines of the Arabic call to prayer, reciting them with a first-rate accent. In a remark that seemed delightfully uncalculated (it'll give Alabama voters heart attacks), Mr. Obama described the call to prayer as 'one of the prettiest sounds on Earth at sunset.' This is just one example of what Pamela is talking about when she says 'Obama's narrative is being altered, enhanced and manipulated to whitewash troubling facts.' 9.) I Was Fluent In Indonesian . . .
NOT EXACTLY: not one former teacher says you could speak the language. 10.) Because I lived In Indonesia, I have more foreign experience . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you were there from the ages of 6 to 10, and could not speak the language. 11.) I Am Stronger On Foreign Affairs . . .
NOT EXACTLY: except for Africa and the Middle East, you have never been anywhere else on the planet and have NO experience with our closest allies. 12.) I Blame My Early Drug Use On Ethnic Confusion . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you were quite content in high school to be Barry Obama, no mention of Kenya and no mention of struggle to identify. Your classmates said you were just fine. 13.) An Ebony Article Moved Me To Run For Office . . .
NOT EXACTLY: Ebony has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist. 14.) A Life Magazine Article Changed My Outlook On Life . NOT EXACTLY: Life has yet to find the article you mention in your book. It doesn't, and never did, exist. 15.) I Won't Run On A National Ticket In '08 . . .
NOT EXACTLY: here you are, despite saying live on TV that you would not have enough experience by then -- and you are all about 'having experience first '. 16.) Voting 'Present' is Common In Illinois Senate . . .
NOT EXACTLY: common for YOU, but not many others have 130 NO VOTES. 17.) I Was A Professor Of Law . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE. 18.) I Was A Constitutional Lawyer . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you were a senior lecturer ON LEAVE. 19.) Without Me, There Would Be No Ethics Bill . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you didn't write it, introduce it, change it, or create it. 20.) The Ethics Bill Was Hard To Pass . . .
NOT EXACTLY: it took just 14 days from start to finish. 21.) I Wrote A Tough Nuclear Bill . . .
NOT EXACTLY: your bill was rejected by your own party for its pandering and lack of all regulation -- mainly because of your Nuclear donor, Exelon, from which David Axelrod came. 22.) I Have Released My State Records . .
NOT EXACTLY: as of March, 2008, state bills you sponsored or voted for have yet to be released, including all the special interests pork hidden within. 23.) I Took On The Asbestos Altgeld Gardens Mess . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you were part of a large group of people who remedied Altgeld Gardens. You failed to mention anyone else but yourself in your books. 24.) My Economics Bill Will Help America . .
NOT EXACTLY: your 111 economic policies were combined into a proposal which lost 99-0, and even YOU voted against your own bill. 25.) I Have Been A Bold Leader In Illinois . .
NOT EXACTLY: even your own supporters characterize your actions as careful rather than bold. 26.) I Passed 26 Of My Own Bills In One Year . . .
NOT EXACTLY: they were not YOUR bills, but rather handed to you after their creation by a fellow Senator, 'to assist you in a future bid for higher office'. 27.) No One on my campaign contacted Canada about NAFTA . . .
NOT EXACTLY: the Canadian Government issued the names and a memo of the conversation your campaign had with them. 28.) I Am Tough On Terrorism . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you missed the Iran Resolution vote on terrorism and your good friend Ali Abunimah supports the destruction off Israel. 29.) I passed 900 Bills in the State Senate . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you passed 26, most of which you didn't write. 30.) I Believe In Fairness, Not Tactics . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you used tactics to eliminate Alice Palmer from running against you. 31.) I Don't Take PAC Money . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you take loads of it. 32.) I don't Have Lobbyists . . .
NOT EXACTLY: you have 47 lobbyists on staff, and counting. 33.) My Campaign Had Nothing To Do With The 1984 Ad . . .
NOT EXACTLY: your own campaign worker made the ad on his Apple in one afternoon. 34.) I Have Always Been Against Iraq . .
NOT EXACTLY: you weren't in office to vote against it AND you have voted to fund it every single time.

I'm not old enough to have ever voted for someone based on race, gender, or religion.

Racism is a form of ignorance. My parents didn't teach us racism.

The the GOP thinks that serving in the military should be the only requirement for President, why did they elect Bush 43?

McCain stated himself that "he just wants to be President" in his book (written for him in 2002)

Neither McCain nor Palin have the education, intelligence, or discipline needed to properly run the country.

I think that we should add an "education" requirement to the office of President and VP. If you can't pull a "B" average in college you will not have the discipline needed to make thoughtful, intelligent decisions. Bush has proven that.

Hey Huey - he faught in a war that has been proven DISGUSTINGLY WRONG.... and that is suppose to show good judgement???

There isnt a history book out there that says the USA was in the right - quite the contrary - the Vietnam was was one of the BIGGEST MISTAKES IN AMERICAN HISTORY... and you want to glorify McCain for being a part of it??

Seems to me the people who should be glorified are the 1/2 of Americans who protested, got jailed, got demonized, got tear-gassed, etc. etc... THOSE ARE THE ONES WHO SHOULD BE GLORIFIED...

And for anyone who wants to point fingers - I am the first one to admit I was FRONT AND CENTER AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR AND DID ALOT OF TIME PROTESTING AGAINST IT... AND I AM PROUD OF IT... PROUD I STOOD AGAINST THE LIES BEING FED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE - PROUD TO SEE THROUGH ALL THE RAH RAH RAH about we are winning the war! Sound Familiar?

What a shame the American People have forgotten so soon how bad war is that we have to go and indulge in another one... We didnt even take proper care of the Veterans from Vietnam war (and did lots of experimentation on them also dont forget)... that it has been a shame on our heads...

Now we find out we are not taking proper care of our Mid-east war veterans - lots are committing suicide, lots have become homeless, lots have vast mental and physical disabilities - they are the forgotten legacy of WAR...

SHAME ON ALL YOU NEO-CON people who GLORIFY WAR AND MCCAIN... its nothing to be proud of ...

LU404 While you were sitting around smoking pot and wondering what your mommy was going to buy you next from K-mart.

Personal insults against other posters are forbidden here. Follow the rules.

Hey, Donald. You forgot the sarcasm tag on that one.

You think personal insults should be allowed?

I am just curious where the moderator is on this board... I see many posts *I* would have deleted as irrelevant, inflammatory, no value, etc. etc. etc.. especially the bashing of other posters...

If we added an education requirement to running for president then Abraham Lincoln would not have made it since he never atteneded college!

Check the facts out about Iraqi leaders saying Obama told them not to make a deal on troop withdrawl until he is president!

The facts are there!

No, Donald, I don't think personal insults should be allowed. BUT I also don't think it should only work one way. It only seems to be labeled a personal insult when it's coming from a McCain supporter.

US FREEDOM, THATS WHAT IS THE TRUTH ABOUT NOBAMA. JUST LIES

Devilsadvocate...if you know nothing about serving in any war, or the military...you cannot begin to fathom what being in war was like. I don;t care how many books you read, movies you watch, or how patriotic you feel you may be. You have no idea what it cost in people's blood for your freedom and to do your little "protests" you are so proud of. Our soldiers and servicemen are brave and wonderful people. Becasue you don;t agree with foreign policy does not make them somehting lessor. Many seerved by the draft.
Maybe I misunderstood your post....if you don't like war I understand that, I just hope you were not refering to the brothers who paid for your ability to say it.

when its finally a two tier society of rich and poor the Repubs can move on the rest of the world and finish the job... it shouldnt be hard as most of the rest of the world is just rich and poor. Europe - Canada watch your asses, Repubs will be coming for your wealth and hope, next.

God save this country. You know Repubs cant.

Thank you!!! I am unbiased Canadian !!! It is beyond comprehension how Americans can vote for Mr McCain and Ms Palin.
I was a little shocked to see the race being so close!!!
Are you Americans so blind by this woman who couldn't even graduate properly from colleges and yet YOU will let her run your GREAt country!!!

WOW!!! I just don't know what you Republican ladies are thinking???

Good luck to your future!!!

Apparently you are not as "unbiased" as you state...

"Thank you!!! I am unbiased Canadian !!! It is beyond comprehension how Americans can vote for Mr McCain and Ms Palin."

Well, it's simply really. We like our jobs, we don't want to lose our jobs, and common sense shows how maintaining the highest corporate tax rate in the world while simulatenously increasing taxes on executive incomes would take tens of thousands more away from us. It is beyond comprehension how Americans can vote for Obama and Biden, who push to maintain that world record corporate tax rate while taking even more from the top, causing more and more damage to the poor and middle class who are already struggling to make ends meet. Every financial class is dependent on every other, the poor and middle class are as dependent on business growth and the wealthy as the wealthy and big business is dependent on the poor and middle class...attack one, might as well attack them all, the long term consequences are identical. Being from Canada, I would have assumed you would understand this, you've already seen this problem and how quickly it can boost job loss, the homeless rate, and cut down the middle class. My job is cut and gone starting end of next month, and I haven't yet found a substitute, so why would I vote for someone who would make it even more difficult to find work? I'm about to be without work AND with next to nothing in savings to pay my bills, McCain is the only common sense option in front of me if I want to find that work in the future.

Why do you have to make up lies?

Why is the only response that the GOP can offer is lies.

McCain has dug himself into a hole because he has lies about Obama. Even Fox news is starting to call him and his campaign on all of the lies.

Have you no honor or dignity for yourself??

I don't really care who our next president is, as long as it is not another Republican, especially McBush.

LU,

Because that's all the republicans have to offer... lies. And MOST Americans have had it up to here with it.

Beautifully put, thank you!

Science Guy Great Post!

I agree. Well done!

Great Post! Well thought out and accurate in information.

science guy you have been posting this crap for weeks now and it is so funny when the fools agree with you

Have you ever noticed that most presidents were former governors? Seems to be a better prerequisite than 143 days in congress where over 70% of the time he couldn't make decisions. But other than that, Palin is running for Vice-President and yes her experience is still better than BO.

BRAVO, I agree with you 120% and I couldn't have put it better. Thank you!!!
Unbiased Canadian watching!!!

Not if you go by the amount of citizens represented....Obama wins this one.

Don't forgot about McCain's hero, Dumbya. He won the highest office in the land with three criminal convictions under his belt.

Scienceguy and the rest of you liberals
One could paint the same picture about Obama and his associations with thugs and second in line at Fannie May for the big bucks. It's all the same. We can go back and forth and stick and move and throw punches all day long but in the end the people will choose who is the better candidates and thank God not you guys. You guys sound like a lynch mob.

There are so many things about Obama that it would fill up this entire page but to put the man down for his short comings is not right. All of you liberals do on this blog is continue talking to the choir because the majority of you are liberals on this blog anyway. Most of you are scared to death that the Mc Cain/ Pllin ticket might win and that's what this is all about. It's motivated out of fear and mostly hate.

It's the rain deer games all over again and again.

One pissed off Democrat who is now a turn coat.

McCain would like to be giving Palin some "big hugs"...but if you'll notice Cindy no longer lets McCain out of her sight.

Oh Please. what a statement.

McCain does seem to like to hug her, maybe he's thinking it time for another trade-in!

brooket 1963: Well said.
I have been happily married for 20 years.
Mr McCain left his wife to marry the millionariess!!!

Does Cindy McCain feel any guilt!!!

Maybe she try to hide her guilt by attending September 11th memorial!!!
What kind of hurt do you think she caused on McCains first wife!

Shame on you Mrs McCain! What a choice for First lady!!! DISGUSTING!!!

"Maybe she try to hide her guilt by attending September 11th memorial!!!
What kind of hurt do you think she caused on McCains first wife!"

Not much. McCain and his ex-wife were separated long before Cindy came into the picture, the marriage over save for the divorce, already open to date others. Easily confirmed, it's considered perfectly acceptable in today's society to separate from your spouse and date others before a divorce months and oftentimes years down the road is finalized. If it's ok for one person, why would it not be for another? Kind of hypocritical to insult someone for something considered perfectly acceptable, as long as it's against someone you want to discredit. Definitely not logical, that's for sure. Of course, many throwing out the accusation have never looked at the facts, and don't even know that they were long separated already.

What about CNN:

(CNN) – Barack Obama appears to be regaining his summer edge over John McCain according to the latest CNN poll of polls, which shows a swing of four points in the Illinois senator's favor in just over a week.

With less than seven weeks remaining until voters weigh in at the polls, Obama now holds a 2 point lead over McCain (47 percent to 45 percent), according to CNN's average of several recent national polls. Eight percent still remain undecided.

The latest polls also suggest Obama again holds the slim but clear advantage he held in August before both parties' conventions — one month ago, Obama held the same 2 point margin over McCain.

Good, then don't vote for Mccain because he'll send him back to MX.

What ever!!! How Old are you???

I have many Hispanic students and studying English but they say more respectable things than you!!!

"Good, then don't vote for Mccain because he'll send him back to MX."

Odd statement, since one of the problems people have had with McCain is that he is showing too MUCH support for illegal immigrants. Of course, nobody said this person was an illegal immigrant, so either way your comment makes no sense. No candidate has said to send back LEGAL immigrants, but to make your comment even more bogus McCain has been attacked even by Democrats for supporting amnesty for illegals instead of pushing to send them back, so you're caught in a lie either way.
Why do people nowadays insist on trying to discredit a candidate by making up anything that sounds bad at that given time. You're related to a Mexican American, don't vote for McCain because he'll send him back to Mexico...you've had problems with the influx of Mexicans in the country, don't vote for McCain because he supports letting them stay.....PICK ONE PEOPLE, you can't accuse him of both at the same time! Which is it, is he a poor choice because he supports illegal immigration, or is he a poor choice because he doesn't support illegal immigration? He's attacked for both, and both are magically the wrong choice depending on the particular second and the person you're trying to convince to side with you.

Bush also has made emails disappear, and slowed down investigations that would have proved that his whitehouse ordered the leak of Plame's identity. I don't care if she was on active assignment at the time or not, leaking an intelligence agent's identity should be viewed as treasonous!

For all the scandal's that the current white house has swept under the rug, I wish for the days that the only thing the president did was lie about having sex with an intern (please note both were consenting adults, and unlike McCain the Clinton's managed to keep their marriage!!).

"For all the scandal's that the current white house has swept under the rug, I wish for the days that the only thing the president did was lie about having sex with an intern (please note both were consenting adults, and unlike McCain the Clinton's managed to keep their marriage!!)."

Which President was this? I don't remember any recent one who only lied about sex with an intern. I remember one that lied about having sex with an intern, lied and pardoned murderers to make a profit, lied about screwing people over in the real estate market, lied while cutting military pay and benefits by 30%, lied about the definition of a surplus as we never reached that positive point, lied about when the deficit reduction crashed and we saw one of the sharpest period of negative growth in decades (happened before he left office and not afterwards like he said), and lied about a few dozen other things that would stretch this out too long. I wish that back then all we had was the scandals we have today, at least with many today there's no evidence to suggest that they're anything more than accusations meant to discredit. But I'm only twenty eight years old, perhaps you're talking about a President from before I was born, because the last one that lied about an intern was Clinton, who lied about just about everything else as well and was caught in numerous scandals from mass pardons to murdering of witnesses against his other scandals to real estate to his law firm scandals to his economic scandals to his military scandals and on and on.

Beckwolf

The only reason why Hillary stayed around is because of power and money. You don't do something like that to a women like Hillary and get away with it. It's all about the power and money and Hillary had a plan. She used Bill as the vehicle to get there. One doesn't embarrassed the likes of someone like Hillary and all things are forgiven. I bet, Bill is still paying for it and I bet they haven't slept together since.

But you got the feeling that Bill Clinton was actually running the country. We know GWB has no intelligence and just a puppet.

Obama strikes me as a free thinker and determined leader. I honestly believe that he will be independent and make the right choices for the country.

However, I probably will be proven wrong.

ANYONE BUT THE NEOCONS!!!!!!

disgusted,
you don't say which ad disgusts you, or which statement(s) you find disgusting. are you just here to throw mud and run away or do you have something relevant to say?

larry wilson,
I agree with you !!! Is she for real??? It shows you what kind of people support Mr McCain and Ms Palin!!!

Get on board & stop fighting against America

If you hate liberals, then you must hate half of America & our troops

You must hate what our government is doing in the War on Terror -- "Liberalizing" Islamic countries

Liberals are Americans. You hate Americans.

This is the one of the biggest legacies Bush is going to leave us with...hating each other!

He has managed to turn us all against each other, that way we won't focus on what a @!$%#ty job he's doing, and won't be paying attention to the huge deficit he's leaving us to deal with. It will be the next president's problem, not his. He and his daddy's friends are going to have the last laugh on all of us!

In case you didn't notice, this hating has been going on for almost 15 years.

piper,

McCain has 7 houses (he thinks), married into millions, and is used to traveling around with multimillionaires like Charles Keating. McCain's got his naval appointment due to his his father's influence.

Obama worked his a** off to get where he is, standing on his OWN 2 feet. Obama left a potential multi-million dollar job on Wall Street to go to Chicago and work to improve peoples' lives.

McCain is the elitist. A good education does not make one elitist. Inherited priveledge and inherited wealth makes one an elitist.

you just go on dreaming!!!
I am unbiased Canadian who can see that people like YOU are the reason why American is in such a mess!!!

But keep on doing what you have been doing. You will see in the end!!!

Good luck to you because you are going to need it!!!
As I told my kids if something dosen't work try something new!!!

keep on dreaming!!! What a loser you people are backing McCain and Palin!!! Well, it will all come back and bite you. I will be laughing my butt off!!!

Unbiased Canadian

"If you hate liberals, then you must hate half of America & our troops"

Does that mean that if you hate Republicans, then you must hate half of America & our troops as well?

Well said Beckwolf

pipercub,,,, Your Pipercub just met gravity & crashed

McBush speaking in front of auto workers in Michigan today got thorwn out --- Everyone was cheering for Obama

Yeh obama wants to make the unions pay their lazy butts 30 an hour so GM, Ford can close their doors and we can chose a new car from the new big 3 from Japan.
Sound like a great long term plan to me.

The most unpopular president in modern American history is ACTUALLY President Bush. Look it up.

And, by the way, if carter wass responsible for the economic conditions of the late 70s then Bush is responsible for the economic conditions of today. I'll accept that.

Excuse me, but if you consider the fact hat we have soo many former presidents still being paid by this country. And if you look at what intrinsic good any of them have done since leaving office. I think you'll see that Carter is the only one who actually ever gave a @!#% about this country. The others just sit around collecting their checks, collecting fees for appearances, playing golf...

Paul-322305 You probably dont even have a job and I'm sure those "lazy butts" you refer to at GM and Ford work harder than you ever could. RepublicanTs , pretending to be religious and hardworking all at the same time. Funny you all pretend you're billionaire entreprenuers, all the business owners who are actually succesful work less not more, so your ultimate goal is laziness, so are you for Dems or just jealous of their "laziness" , pick an argument and a goal and stick to them.

Kurt your ignorance is showing when you make the statement that any successful business owner works less not more. If a business owner works less he won't be a business owner very long. What you are looking for is the free hand outs that obama is promising. obama more capital gains tax equals less business investment and yes we will be buying our cars from Japan, China. They are better built anyway.

Pipercub.....President Bush is trying to do his job...He is staying in Washington today to deal with this crises. However, Bush is by far the worse president ever. When Carter was president, you could get credit, buy cars, buy homes etc. We had inflation!!!!! But we had business. Carter made his mistake by allowing the gas stations to run out of gas and not beginning an alternative energy policy, which we still need today. Also Carter's attempt to deal with the Iran crises was a problem. If he had more success with these several issues, he would have beaten Reagan with little problem.

Now the issue......THE ECONOMY WHICH DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT CLINTON TOUTED, IS WHERE WE ARE AS AMERICANS....20 YRS OF REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE CREATED DEFICIT SPENDING AND THAT'S IN THE PAST AND PRESENT. ONLY WM. JEFFERSON CLINTON'S DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION BROUGHT JOBS, TRADE, PEACE, AND A BALANCE BUDGET!!!!!

MSN is no more than a MOVE ON style left wing propaganda machine.
I have yet to have seen one positive article about McCain, or one Negative about Barack.
This is all the evidence anyone needs to know that MSN is 100% for Obama, and since they show such bias, reader beware about the content of their articles. You can not take them for accurate, as the have earned no respect as an impartial media outlet.
MSN is simply trying to sway public opinion against McCain and Palin.

And Fox news is fair and balanced....LMAO!!!

oh wait let's try Rush Limbaugh...lol

Yes it is. At least they tell the truth. O'Reilly chronicles on obama is exposing the clown for what he is==nothing.

To Pipercub

NO THE WORSE PRESIDENT IN THE LAST 50 YEARS WILL BE McMUMMY IF HE IS VOTED IN OFFICE!

HE HAS ALREADY SIDED WITH THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BRING OUR GREAT NATION TO THE PRECIPICE OF Economical DESTRUCTION ( REPUBLICANS).

....AND HIS ISN'T EVEN IN OFFICE YET!

What do you think will happen then?...if you do think.

Research NIXON-AGNEW then get back to me.

John McCain is a funny man,
Chose his running mate without a plan,
He said "no more bailouts is okay with me",
Until the Fed gave 85 Billion to AIG,
On and on the flip flop goes,
Where it ends no one really knows,
A champion of the worker only when he
blew it,
Saying the economy was okay while fear
ran through it,
He said Sarah gave the bad bridge back,
When she really took another tack,
On and on the flip flop goes,
The man sure is light on his toes,
Lying every chance he gets,
Defending those lies to hedge his bets,
He's a man who wants the White House so
bad,
He makes his fellow repub congress people
mad,
And Palin with her voice so shrill,
Never met an animal she didn't want to
kill,
Are these the ones we want to change the
nation's track?
And what if he has a heart attack?
So hear the clarion one and all,
Vote democratic in the fall…

pat, is smoking something, because FAUX news isn't fair and balanced! I guess all the other news outlets are making sh*t up, when they said that JM said the economy is fundamentally strong? lmaoooooooooooooooooooo

I just know that you have a gallon of koolaid that you are gulping

piper,

this isn't about Carter. it's about GW Bush, the current president, and McCain and Obama, one of whom will replace him.

The mass media is overwelmingly unfair to McCain, and The rediculous amount of dirt digging they are doing against Palin tells it all. The media is in large part bias and liberal to the point of not even acting proffesional anymore.

Liberals should not be upset when I point out these undisputable facts. I have yet to see any dirt digging against Obama on any other station other than Fox, and I pay close attention, so no matter what any liberal Obama lover tries to reply to what I type, I know 100% that I the media is digging deep against McCain, and making excuses for Obama. End of story. So it would seem to me, that the rest of the stations do not care about the facts.

But be happy liberals, The left wing propaganda machine mainstream press is on your side. You do not need to throw a fit and retort to the facts I am typing here. Just sit back in your chair and be happy, that as for the media outlets 90% of them are spewing lies and propaganda for your side. You do not have to worry about the truth about Obama to be widely distributed.

Example of left wing propaganda.
Recently I saw a left wing media outlet do a half truth quote about Reagan.
They said he said,
I am from from the government and I am here to help you.
trying to fool their minions into believing Reagan and the Republicans will force Government on you. While anyone with open eyes knows the left wants to hid the fact they want government to control your life.
Now the full quote.
The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.
I think that about says it all.

rick,

that's nice, but this election is not about the media. you need to understand the biases of whatever media outlet you're reading or listening to, be it MSNBC, Fox News, NPR, The Nation, Wall Street Journal, National Revue, Daily Standard. Or extreme sources such as Rush Limbaugh or MoveOn.org..

If you don't like a particular media source, choose another. there's a wide variety suitable to most any taste.

on MSNBC,
ever heard of Joe Scarborough???? he's on MSNBC and I'm pretty sure that is not a member of MoveOn.org. What about Bill O'Reilly. He's part of the media, too.

I suspect that Rush or Glenn Beck went on a rant this morning about "liberal media" which is what worked all you dittoheads into a lather.

if you don't like a particular media outlet, choose another. we Americans call this Freedom of the Press!!! And it's one of our most precious freedoms....All Americans should love Freedom of the Press.

can't leave this one alone,

One of the first things Hitler did to brainwash the German people was to attack the press in order to control information...I can't believe you guys are moaning about the diversity of media we have unless you're afraid to listen to opinions from outside of your little mind-set.

I wonder if they polled all of the rednecks that will not vote for an African American and ??? on the American. The media is trying cram this clown down our throats. He has no plan and that is why he spends all of his time bashing Palin. He looks more like a moose tard than a president.

You just aren't paying attention. It was Obama who talked about his six point plan yesterday. McCain, on the other hand, blathered on in Detroit about "we are going to fix this" without giving one solid detail of any plan. Oh, that's right, he wants to appoint a commission to study the economy. Your nominee is a rudderless ship, just like the current occupant of the white house. Face the facts, bucko.

Thanks Mr. Wilson,
Now let me set you straight. First of all McCain has been called a maveric for a reason. He has gone against The Bush administration so many times. Also that little Obama commercial where McCain is saying he voted with Bush 80% of the time. I remember that interview, he was defending himself against republicans who were that day accusing him of being a maveric because he just voted against some Bush legislation. How is that for your reality check.

Another thing thank you for not leaving it alone, because you just stepped in it. The first thing Hitler did was take over the media, and put in his ministers of propaganda. (Sorry History proves it and that just destroys the credibilty of your statement.) The Nazis were socialists, something conservates hate and Liberals embrace. Those facts also undeniable.

And when you talk about the so called diversity of the media, polls have shown that 70% of Americans can see that it is left leening. But of course diversity to liberals mean that you toe the liberal line.

So these are the facts from my highly more intelligent mind than yours Larry, and not only that they can be proven Larry, So save your propaganda for those people your side of the isle depends on so greatly to advance your misguided message (the ignorant masses)

Thanks again for not leaving it alone,
I have enjoyed completely discrediting you.
Dont worry, you will still have the support of the blind ignorant, socialists who are wondering what government can get for them. Wondering how they can let all the necessary decisions in life be decided by a government, it is the liberal way, and propagandist like you have the ignorant believing that it is the best for them. Congradulations, Sorry I had to proved you a fool.

So This so called link, He it was the Liberals and the Obama campaign who made it up.
But then again where there is no news, just make it up.

Funny thing is if you check even the liberal dems in Washingto they also have a link to voting with Bush, but you cant Propagandize agaist McCain if you point that out.

For all you Move on types. Ever wonder why your Dem reps in Congress re passed the Patriot Act.

Its because they know it works, They believe a Dem will be in the Whitehous next year, and they did not want that Dem getting the Blame when a Terrorist slipped through the Cracks because of legislation that they voted down. Thats the Dems though playing politics with national security.

Funny in the last 20 years of my voting life I have never once been polled, and I can assure you there are a lot of other republicans out there that haven't been either. I don't know where these polled people are but The NYT is just dying to prance on some glimmer of hope that the DEMS are gaining ground. Print all you want, but the November elections will prove otherwise! This country needs to get back to being a God-fearing, God-honoring nation or it will most assuredly be crushed in a heartbeat no matter who is in charge!

I hate to break it to you, but the propaganda machine has been in overdrive since dumbya was appointed. The so called liberal media echoed his drum beat to war louder than anyone.

Keep your religion in church Fedup. This nation needs intelligent leadership with an eye on the future rather than on the wallets of their friends. That leaves the repubs out.

obama he will save the economy---he plans on a tax rampage, not only would he increase the capital=gains tax rate from 15% to as much as 28%, he wants to allow the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts expire in 2010, which effectively raises taxes on Americans by tens of billions of dollar.

Chuck Hagel: Palin isn't ready
Posted: Thursday, September 18, 2008 11:20 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: 2008, Security, Palin

From NBC's Mark Murray
In an interview with the Omaha World-Herald, Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel (R) suggested that Palin doesn't have the foreign-policy experience to be president. "'She doesn't have any foreign policy credentials,' Hagel said in an interview. 'You get a passport for the first time in your life last year? I mean, I don't know what you can say. You can't say anything.'"

Check out this other Hagel line: "'I think they ought to be just honest about it and stop the nonsense about, "I look out my window and I see Russia and so therefore I know something about Russia,"' he said. 'That kind of thing is insulting to the American people.'"

And this one: "'I think it's a stretch to, in any way, to say that she's got the experience to be president of the United States,' Hagel said."

Oh another thing Larry,
You try to put on this smoke and mirrors game by saying this election is not about the Media, its about the Candidates, well this might seem true to the political novices, but the media it clearly trying to influence public opinion one way or the other. They are not reporting the news, they are editorializing, leaving out the information they do not want you to hear, (and basically making up the stories as they want them)
And for liberals like yourself larry who have to defend your liberal media, I would not expect any statement less than that of you. The media has chosen sides, and therefore made itself a part of this campaign.
To all the logical people out there, where do you think people get their information about candidates from anyway, A 30 sec. commercial? A stump speach that hosts 10,000 people? lets be realistic, they get it from the mainstream media, and when the mainstream media is trying to control they way you think by pushing their bias and propaganda, they sure can be endicted.
So again Larry, your Libera Move on nonsense cannot stand up to the truth of reality.

Posts like yours only apply to those who want to believe it, and those whos political views are no deeper than the skin, but again that is the Liberals targeted audience.

Pat, the repeal of the bush tax cuts will only raise taxes on the wealthy. Actually, under Obama's plan 95% of Americans will see a tax cut. Only those making more than 250K will see an increase. Frankly, they can afford it and have been enjoying the bush tax cuts long enough. It's time for the wealthy to pony up.

Give me a break, Rick. The mainstream media gave bush a pass while he was lying to us about starting a war. They gave him a pass when he was appointed by the supreme court. They only got their heads on straight after Katrina, but it took Americans dying in the street to do it. What you are seeing now is just the chickens coming home to roost. And it's about time.

Mantano,
What planet are you from, Nevermind, even the most casual of viewer can see how weak your statement is, I wont need to point it out.
only 60% of Americans pay taxes, Just another campaign lie.
How can you make cuts to taxes that do not exist?

Sounds to me like you are looking for something without having to put any effort twoards it, Hey why not have some else pay for your things. Lets redistribute the wealth.

And FYI those rich people, you know the 5% already are burdened with over 50% of the tax bill, But I guess people like you just can not do for yourself, or believe in yourself enough that you can rely on yourself.
I wonder why that is.

I agree with you Pat. Obama wants to raise taxes on people who make over 250K, which affects small business's and corporations and the wealthy americans who have $$ to invest in start-up business's etc. Also when you tax this percentile, you DECREASE federal revenue which is used to bring down debt. So how does Obama expect to balance the budget by decreasing federal revenue, and at the same time create all new types of programs?

Is Chuck Hagel African-American?

Mantano,
What can I say continue to live your lies, and post your lies.
If that makes you feel good, then just keep fighting reality.
In a liberal world, the government will pay you to do that, that way you will not have to face the reality of providing for yourself. I see why you believe the way you do. Reality is tough, and if your not tough, you must live a lie.

Mantano,
Chickens comming home to roost? Sounds like you really hate America. No wonder you can relate to Obama so well. You hate America as much as he does.

Seems like you just told everyone who you are, We know where you got those words.
I love sitting back and watching Liberals and foolish Obama supports show themselves for how auful they truely are.

rick,
take a pill

my post, to which you refer, said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about either candidate.
you completely missed my point. your self-proclaimed "highly intelligent mind" ran off the tracks and crashed into some slime-filled cesspool.
I made the statement:

"One of the first things Hitler did to brainwash the German people was to attack the press in order to control information..."

to which you reply:

"The first thing Hitler did was take over the media, and put in his ministers of propaganda. (Sorry History proves it and that just destroys the credibilty of your statement.)"

what are you talking about??? Your first sentence confirms my statement!!!are you insane??

my point, if can untangle your brain from whatever trap it's in, is that we have a FREE PRESS with lots of choices. And all Americans should love it. Do you dispute that??? come on, jerk, I dare you.

furthermore, If you don't like what one media outlet has to say, I say you can choose another. Do you dispute that?? You'd rather whine about liberal bias.

Incidently, if your were paying any attention, you would have noticed that I threw in MoveOn.org with the extremists. Do you distpute that???

That's all I had so say, other than my theory that Rush or Glenn Beck's ranting may have precipitated an avalanche of whining about the liberal press. Maybe that theory's faulty, and I don't really care. Do you claim that Rush or Glenn, or those people on Air America don't get into rants??

those 3 posts were devoid of partisanship, unless you consider Rush or Glenn to speak on behalf of the Republican party.

and You are an a**h***.

Mantano-please explain your logic on how repealing the Bush tax cuts will only affect the wealthy? Are you saying that the wealthy will only be the ones to pay a higher death tax? I don't mean to come down on you, but seriously???

The threshold for the death tax is $1Million. I doubt many middle class folks will get hit.

KURT, Nope just regular middle class in Ohio at the same job for 12 years after 20 in the NAVY.
married 29 yrs (same wife)3 daughters and 2 granddaughters. I still have to work after retiring from the military so that MY FAMILY and I can LIVE the American Dream. I WORK FOR MY OPPORTUNITIES. I extend charity locally when people need things that they themselves cant accomplish. I LOVE MY BIBLE AND MY HUNTING GUN. I LOVE THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT THIS GREAT COUNTRY PROVIDES. Even in a BAD economy there is work to be done and provide for my family. I will not give up the AMERICAN DREAM easily. I would never vote for a man that has obamas history of terrorists friends and family. McCain was not my first choice either (Sam Brownback) But, I feel John and Sara have AMERICAS best interest at heart.

Are you sure this is correct?

Paul,

Like you I still work to live out the American Dream, I have lovely my wife of 29 years, three awesome kids and one beautiful grand daughter. I served 30 years in the military, I read my bible (perhaps not as much as I should). I am a gun owner and was born in a small town in Florida. I WOULD never vote for someone like John McCain, he is a prolific LIAR, he will do and say what ever it takes to get elected. All of a sudden I am suppose to forget that he voted for the war, that he voted against a Bill that would have allowed my wife and daughter to receive equal pay for equal work, he has exercised poor judgement throughout this campaign.....he selected a VP under investigation but I guess that's business as usual based on the ground rules establish by Bush!

To me he has become a pure disgrace to those in uniform, he talks the talk but time after time he has voted against Bills designed to assist those in uniform and their families

Obama voted NO...Mccain voted Yes

Obama suggested the fight is in Afghanistan...McCain called it was a insignificant conflict...I guess we all know that was WRONG!

Obama suggested that we talk to our adversaries ....McCain sated Omaba was in experienced (but I see since then we have talked to Iran, Korea, China, etc)

Obama has suggested more government hands on.....McCain stated less government...well until yesterday

Obama suggested we establish a time table for leaving Iraq...McCain stated that Obama would rather lose a war and win an election..( I see now we have a time horizon and the Iraq's want us gone in 16 months)

I could do this all day on who has consistently demonstrated LEADERSHIP and JUDGEMENT!

We both love our country, you vote McCain and I will vote Senator Obama to end this mockery of an administration

rick,

I just noticed your other slime spot.

I get my information about the candidates and issues from a variey of newspapers and on-line news sources, plus I read the newsvine posts from McCain's supporters as well as Obama's. I also look at the candidates' web sites. I pay a lot more attention to what the candidates actually say than I do to others' interpretations of what they say. I do not pay much attention to extemists like Rush Limbaugh or MoveOn.org, because I think that they will lie and distort to try to prove a point. I do not pay much attention to newsvine posts that are a bunch of wild accusations with no credible information to back them up.

You are now free to return to your slime pool

And this is where you missed my point, As I said the Main stream media is Liberal, It is trying to endocrinate people like Hitler did. It is nod diverse as you would like to pretend, Yes there are Conservative Commentators on these channels, But they are commentaters and are not pretending to just be reporting news. You watch those programs knowing they have opinions vs watching what the main stream media calls reporting the news, but they do it in a Bias, pointed, and deliberate manner. You know what I am talking about. When News outlets use the deception of being unbias while reporting one sided slanted views, that is propaganda. Speak halve truths, and hide the truth you do not want out. That is the mainstream media. Rush, Hannity, and all others are forth right about who they are, and they are not trying to decieve the viewer about their agendas.

No vilinous entety will ever tell you their true intent. And the mainstream media creates the news rather than report it. I can flip throug the channels and before I get to one, I can already predict that they are going to be saying something negative about Palin, because they have sent an attach machine against her. Each Liberal mainstream cable news channel except fox is Continuously attacking the McCain ticket, While the Obama ticket, which is only infrequently mentiion on Fox is getting a free pass. Political Left wing or Right wingers who have there own show, are not who I am including.

Politically lots of difference in the 2. MY point is still obama's history. If I had those connections in the NAVY I never would have been able to get any kind of security clearance let alone run for a political office. I cant find myself really believing that man is going to change anything except bigger government, which brings back his Socialist Agenda. Hillary at least stated "The only reason Marxism didnt work is that SHE was not in charge of it" I believe obama is even left of her and wont admit it. Dems want change but have failed to pass anything even though they have the Majority in the House and Senate. What are THEY waiting for? I guess our votes will cancel out. How big is the rest of your family? I'M TAKING A POLE.

Where's the Vic Morrows of yesterday. Where is the fair and balanced journalism that made this country so great? Where are the voices that cry out for what is right, fair and correct? It's not journalism any longer. I don't know what they call themselves any more but they are not journalist. A journalist is a person that writes and reports the facts without a personal agenda. A person who is fair and balanced and writes the facts and the truth. I use to be a stanch Catholic Democrat from New Orleans who voted for the Democratic ticket all my life. The media has really turned me off and when they sided with Obama, I jumped ship and so did my whole family. I'm talking about 175 people. Our last family reunion was a week ago and everybody was pissed off about what the media is doing. They all said that they are jumping ship this year. I never heard that form my family before and I'm 57 years old. It certainly not a racial thing in my family. My whole family voted for Mayor Moreal and mayor Nagin when they ran for office and both are black men.
There's something about this race that is disturbing to me and my whole family this year. The media is doing there best to destroy two people and that's just not fair in our books. My family and I will vote the republican ticket this time because of what the media is doing to these two people. My dad has never voted republican in his life but he's pissed off at the media for what they are doing to , not so much Mc Cain but what they are doing to Palin. He said the other day, "That's a nice God fearing lady and what they are doing to her is way out of bounds". My dad is from the old school and he loves the under dog or someone that is getting beat up for no reason.
It's sad that our once great two sided media has stoop to these kind of one sided savage tactics. It's only going to hurt Obama in the end.
Once a loyal democrat now a pissed off turn coat.

rick,

thank you for toning down your rhetoric.

When I watch Hardball, I'm completely aware of Chris Mathews' biases. when his guests include Joe Scarborough, I know where Joe stands. My favorite is Pat Buchanon. I love the way he gives suggestions on tactics to Obama's campaign. I do get annoyed when Chris yell down people like Carly Fiorina, but it's his show. I'm glad people like Carly continue to show up (although I disagree with her on most issues).

I also watch the Daily Show because I think it's funny, but I don't consider it news.

I don't consider Rush to be news at all. He sticks his big mouth into topics he knows absolutely nothing about, such as biological sciences, pretending he knows something, and leads his gullible flock into a patch of lies and misinformation. (I could go on for hours on this topic, it's my profession). I quit listening to him years ago. I can't stomach Glenn Beck.

I occassionally tune in Hannity, Wallace, and the others at Fox to listen to the "other side", but usually don't stay long, because I don't really like them, and find their views to be too predictable.

If you make an effort, you can sort through the edited news clips and get a pretty good idea of what the candidates actually say. I much prefer first hand information over interpretation.

Serious newsies who actually read have a lot more options. At Barnes and Noble you can get a pretty broad spectrum of opinion.

Freedom of the press. God bless America.

Larry,
I think you're on to something there buddy. Can't believe anything you hear and half of what you see. Is that correct? Man i agree with you. I try to watch Hannity and Combs and all they do is argue between each other. That's not journalism. That's a circus. ORielly is too opinionated in many ways but sometimes only sometimes I can stomach him. The rest of them are jokes. I probably like Greta the most. and that's stretching it.
Good Post.

more on the press.

there's also the unedited C-SPANs for those with lots of time, and the congressional record, posted on the internet, to really find out who said what when and what was really in a piece of legislation. unless you're paranoid that the congressional record is infected by liberal bias.

rick,

The big difference between your "liberal biased" press and Hitler's propaganda is that Hitler WAS the state. We are still free to ignore news that we consider to be too liberal. Please remember to be glad that you have a choice. I certainly am.

"ONLY WM. JEFFERSON CLINTON'S DEMOCRATIC ADMINISTRATION BROUGHT JOBS, TRADE, PEACE, AND A BALANCE BUDGET!!!!!"

And immediately afterwards, before he even left office, one of the biggest losses of those jobs with close to the biggest rate of increase in the deficit in US history. A shining example of what NOT to do, we saw a couple years of prosperity from the technology boom, and then when it ended much sooner than predictions had allowed for, Clinton's policies ballooned and erased the entire deficit reduction practically in an instant, costing tens of thousands of jobs and creating the mess we were faced with as Bush stepped in, who has continued with the same mess and not fixed a bloody thing. We have seen two of the worst US Presidents in a row from every economic angle (not THE two worst in a row, but pretty close). Clinton's administration was in effect when we saw more jobs and a more balanced budget, and then Clinton's administration took those jobs and the balanced budget, all while still in office.

rmantano,

How will he give a tax cut to those who pay no federal income tax? Answer: welfare (in the form of expanded EITC). Don't itemize? Then get a credit. However, no where does it explain whether all these credits are refundable credits or non-refundable credits. It makes a huge difference. If you don't pay any taxes then getting a non-refundable credit like the Child Care credit does you no good. You have to have a tax liability to use a non-refundable credit. The new $1000 family credit? again what kind. A family of 4 (2 parents with 2 kids under 17) pay no federal income tax until they make over $43,000. How do they get a tax break? Once again since 40% pay no federal income tax how can he say that 95% of the people will get a tax break?

The only way is to increase or create new refundable tax credits. There are only 2 refundable tax credits now, Earned Income Tax Credit (max over $4700 for 2007) and the Additional Child Tax Credit (max of $1000 per child under 17). Refundable credits like EITC are another name for welfare. Even though you have no taxes you get a refund up to $4700. That money comes from other taxpayers. It is a redistribution of wealth from tax paying individuals to non tax paying individuals. In addition, there is a LOT of FRAUD in the EITC.

As for seniors not paying any tax up to $50,000. Is that any income or earned income (ie job or retirement or social security) What if a senior only has dividends or capital gains from investments? Is the first $50,000 excluded? But he is going to raise the rate on capital gains and qualified dividends.

Having fancy numbers on the net saying this and that mean nothing. I remember when Clinton promised a middle class tax cut. Remember his heart rendering speech from the Oval office on how he had never worked so hard but just couldn't figure out how to do what he promised? WHAT A LIAR.

Anytime you want to discuss taxes I will be more than happy to do that. How about a discussion on the lies about higher education credits (Hope and Lifetime Learning)? How about phase out points for rich like people who make more than $110,000 (MFJ) losing the $1000 child tax credit. Are they RICH at $110,000? I thought it was $250,000. Is Obama going to change the phase out point?

"and the congressional record, posted on the internet, to really find out who said what when and what was really in a piece of legislation. unless you're paranoid that the congressional record is infected by liberal bias."

Nope, the congressional record is definitely a good source to look at, as long as you don't simply look at the headline of a bill and see who voted which way, since oftentimes people vote one way or the other to support or eliminate the additions on the bills, not the original intent of the bill itself (see veteran benefits bills that were shot down because they had costs added which would have taken more from veterans than it actually would have provided). Reading every addition to a bill and viewing the congressional record is always a good step. Not as good as looking at current policy and figuring out long term consequences based on current economic conditions, but still something worth looking at. The combination of that congressional record and current policy is why I'm voting for McCain, especially with my job ending next month and me with no replacement job yet to fall back on.

"Once again since 40% pay no federal income tax how can he say that 95% of the people will get a tax break?"

I laughed out loud in the middle of my office trailer the first time I was watching him say that in a speech. My first thought was the same thing, 100 minus forty minus 4 (I think he said for the percent wealthy) equals 95?

Beckwolf,

I'm glad to see someone else sees through sham perpretrated by both Rs and Ds regarding who voted for what legislation. The truth is in details that are often complex and very time consuming to uncover. There may be 2 versions of a bill with slightly different attachments. A candidate will vote for one and against the other, because they favor an unrelated attachment. Then the accusations fly that one candidate "voted against shool lunches for poor children" or "voted against Veteran's benefits".

It's a sleazy part of politics that both sides wallow in equally.

I screen out these kinds of claims unless I know something specific about the circumstances.

hope you find work soon.

beckwolf,

on your 40% math...

You claim that 40% pay no income taxes. is that people, or people over 18, or families, or people who are supposed to pay taxes, or people with income? I have no way to evaluate your statement without knowing the base population for your 40% claim. I would appreciate a verifiable source, too.

And Obama's 95%. I'm pretty sure he means taxpayers who file form 1040 (personal income tax). That would be individual taxpayers and couples filing jointly.

please specify what you mean or I will not be able to take your statement seriously.

beckwolf,

on tax math

I just heard a fact check on Obama's 95% number re: tax relief.....seems the truth is more like 80 - 85% of tax payers will pay less under Obama's plan...this from David Schuster, who you may or may not believe.

If Schuster is correct, this is evidence that Obama either has the wrong information or has stretched the truth.

Larry,

40% of people with income pay no federal income tax. Either they do not have filling requirement or have deductions and exemptions and credits that reduce their taxable income to zero. Many people who pay zero taxes also get a refund of over $4700 because of earned income tax credit and can get even more when the additional child tax credit in included. How you give these people a tax break when they already pay no taxes means Obama has to give them money. Another term for welfare in my mind.