Black churches celebrate Obama victory

To racists that is all that is relevant.

YOU don't need to do anything.  WE, meaning everyone regardless of their race needs to make change. 

Some in this country want to forget the past, which is good, but WE can't ignore the harm of past social injustice which still manifests today. 

All this resentment over the fact that America is celebrating the first President of Color is baffling. Its a significant moment, period. Maybe you just don't get it and I could talk myself blue in the face but I know you don't get it because you don't want to. All this black pride makes you nervous. I get where your coming from. You are completely unable to put yourself in the shoes of your fellow Americans. You know nothing about their history and their world. Which is fine by me. After all, We've co-existed in this country for generations. And we will continue to do so.

All I ask of you is not to put words in the black community's mouth. We don't call people sell-outs because of parentage. People are labeled sell-outs for their actions, and sometimes that isn't fair. Barack Obama has the same ethnic background of millions of African-Americans. Have you ever heard of the phrase from 'snow to crow?'  We have had people of mixed race within our community since black people first step foot in this country. Every black family in this country has at least one person of mixed heritage. In fact, if you look at some of our most famous citizens, they are three shades lighter then President Obama, Rosa Parks, Langston Hughes, Thurgood Marshall, Colin Powell, and the list goes on and on. I'm watching the neighborhood ball and a young woman who could pass for either white or hispanic spoke about her mother, one of the Little Rock 9, and what an important moment it is for her. This beautiful, bi-racial woman was accompanied by a very handsome young white male. That young couple's racial background doesn't matter and thats what this victory is all about. Today is proof that we have finally come full circle. I challenge to find empathy in your heart. Please read a book on the civl rights movement or take the time to talk to at least one black person over the age 50. You should ask them what all of this about and hopefully you'll get it.  

Leeha,  I resent the fact that you say black pride makes me nervous.  It is also completely unfair to say that I know nothing about African-American history.  My point was simply that Obama is more than a black man and that people should focus on what he can do for ALL Americans.

a different opinion,

I didn't mean to offend you, but evidently these expressions of black pride are making people nervous. I love newsvine and I have read several threads for several articles and people are beside themselves. And they keep talking about black people thinking we run the country now. And I'm offended by that attitude. Like people we have to move beyond this US vs. Them division and I think white people can take black people celebrating this next chapter in the black American story. We don't want the presidency forever. I understand that President Obama should be focused on for his greatness because that's why we love him. But the fact that is he has all these amazing qualities is the very reason that this black man was elected. He isn't MORE than just a black man, he is a great man period. And that's why he won. Black people understand that the President serves all of America. We never assumed that we are the only people that count. It is this selfishness and self-centeredness that I think is being unfairly being pushed on the black community. Because we are showing pride in him and beyond ourselves in this historical moment doesn't mean that we think that we have found the black messiah. Because of our position in this country, we know that we are a minority, a faction, and that we are part of a whole. Black people don't want to dominate the American landscape, we just want to be part of it. After all, thats what multiculturalism is about. --I said that the poster doesn't know african american history because he claimed that we would call Barack Obama a sell-out based on his skin color and his parentage. That isn't true. We have our divisions in our community, but for the most part we stand by inclusiveness and we realize we come in all different colors. --If anybody is offended by black churches celebrating. look at those people in that picture. They have to be in their late 40s' at least. Think about when they were born and the events they lived through. Washington D.C. was slave territory which means it has always had a large black population and it was a segregated city. Washington D.C. burned in the riots after MLK's death. These are people who have lived through the fire. But yet they played by the rules, worked hard, and are trying to be good people, after all they are in a church. They have invested in the system and the election of Barck Obama is proof that the American system works. Then think about the place of the black church, which has been eroded in our modern secular times, but the black church was a major cornerstone of the community. Its a force for organization and collective action all the way back to the civil rights movement. -- They have a reason to celebrate and I would like people to recognize that. 

Maybe more blacks can't buck the system and become Republican because as a party it doesn't serve our interests. In my opinion, I personally can't see myself standing with any white supremacists on anything. And the fact of the matter, is that those who hate me and wish I would go back to Africa have only two parties to choose from. And I, an African-American women have only two parties to choose from. A long time ago, they chose the Republican party and my father, then me, chose the Democratic party. Over the years, the respective parties came to serve the interest of their constituents. Thus the republican party represents some policies I don't agree with. I believe in a woman's right to have an abortion, although because of my personal morals I would never murder my own child. And maybe this fits me right into your stereotype, I would rather go on welfare than lay down and let somebody pull my unborn child from my body. I believe in immigration and diversity and inclusion. I believe in increased spending on education, and I believe in gay rights. Many of my friends who are African American believe in the same things and the Republican party can't serve us. I grew up in both black and white neighborhoods and I have many white friends, some of them are even Republican. We talked and there are things I like about the Republican philosophy, but the divide between the two parties is just so wide. --I'm not down with writing discrimination into our constitution with an amendment against gay marriage. To me, thats divisive.---As for our two separate black and white culture, I think that's an issue of perspective. I believe many people of color would say they have always had to navigate both worlds. I say that part of your learning to move in both worlds is to actually talk with different people and expose yourself to their point of view.--And you said the door has been open for 50 years why don't black people simply take their place in society--this is what this moment in history is about. Black people pushed, shoved the door open and Barack Obama is victorious because we made our place in this society.

leeha,

Thak you for a well articulated response. Although your passion comes through, your tone was respectful and I appreciate that. You are correct that we all have to pick the party that serves our interests. I chose the Republican party for a variety of reasons, many of which are the opposite positions of the issues that you support. I guess my whole point is that we will never truly be one society until all of our constituent groups disappear, and it is just as likely to find a black Republican (based on that individuals own interests) as it is to find a white Democrat. Both parties would have to change alot for that, as well as our society in general. But group-oriented politics from either side of the aisle or either race prevent real unity of the type being mentioned. Until people stop seeing themselves as belonging to one group or another, how can we really be one?

As a side comment I am perplexed by your comment about abortion. I'm not trying to tell you that you are a hypocrite, but there is a glaring dichotomy in your statement. If you believe that aborting your own child is tantamont  to murder, how can you support that right for others? Are their children any less human than yours that their deaths are not also murder? If not, then you are saying that the humanity of an unborn child rests solely upon the will of its mother. If other unborn children are as human as your own, then you support the right of one person to murder another based on their personal moral viewpoint. Murder is murder, if you tell me that I cannot murder my wife, my children, or my black, republican next door neighbor (he really is!), then how can you agree that its OK for a mother to murder her unborn child as long as that's her personal preference? Personally, I too would rather you be on welfare than have someone pull your child from your womb. Your very words bespeak the unmitigated violence of such an act. I wish more pro-choice advocates would speak as plainly. 

If you don't mind, I am going to suggest that you read "The Pivot of Civilization" by Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood.  It is available as a free PDF at this address:

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1689  -a neutral, non-antiabortion website

Here is an examle of her philosophy, pertaining to charitable efforts at relieving the poor:

"Those vast, complex, interrelated organizations aiming to control and to
diminish the spread of misery and destitution and all the menacing evils
that spring out of this sinisterly fertile soil, are the surest
sign that our civilization has bred, is breeding and is perpetuating
constantly increasing numbers of defectives, delinquents and
dependents. My criticism, therefore, is not directed at the "failure" of
philanthropy, but rather at its success."

Her solution to poverty would seem to be "don't let poor people (or as she calls them "defectives, delinquents, and dependents") breed.  

Mike, 

Thanks for your response. Really abortion is my sticking issue, I know in my heart its wrong. But in this society where collectively we have a hard time taking care of unwanted children, I wonder if a woman who knows that she will be an unfit mother should be free to abort her child instead of bringing up a child that she will ultimately neglect. As a woman and a good friend, I know about 6 women who have had abortions. And for all 6, their abortion is their deep down dark secret. So I don't believe the feminist crap about an unborn child just being a fetus. And that women are not affected by the lost of their future children. It is murder, there is no other way around it.  And I really wish women could talk about abortion without all the politics, even all the religion. After all, one can make a moral decision without it being a religious decision.--I definitely will check out the info you provided because I'm interested in finding out if there is a place for me in the anti-abortion movement. And I learned about the ugly views of the founder of planned parenthood. My great aunt was unknowingly sterilized at the age of 24 after giving birth to her second child. That story has stayed with me so I know a little about what historically was thought about poor women and their children. But here is my thing, in this country where black women have come to represent the welfare mother, having one baby after another, what kind of support can I aspect from the Republican party if I did face an unwanted pregnancy.  To me, it seems like the democratic party is the only party that supports poor pregnant women, and value the life of their children. Now don't get me wrong, I believe women have to be responsible for themselves and make sure they don't get pregnant in the first place. But my question is are we as a society ready to take care of all of America's aborted babies.--On your point about ending special interest groups based on race. I agree we do need to move pass that, but the way urban neighborhoods gained political power in the first place is by working together. Hopefully over time and with economic equality we can start moving away from that type of politics and truly become post racial. An older friend told me that somebody has to be bold and help fight the battle in the Republican party. To me that battle seems so uphill and there are factions in the party that frankly scare me.  I will say that the Congressional Black Caucus seems to be an institution that we are ready to let go. It was needed before, but now, i don't know.

leeha,

I know that you wish that abortion could be discussed without resorting to political or religious ideology. I hope you will forgive my weakness in that regard.

I am a Catholic (convert). I have sins enough to go around and I am not a very good Catholic, but I try. I don't know what your faith convictions are, if any, but I hope that you will let me express some of what I have learned in my faith journey. The doctrine of "limbo" for the souls of unbaptized children is not codified in the church; the Catechism of the Catholic Church, expresses the hope that the souls of unbaptized children are with God. I believe firmly, and have read other's opinions as well, that the souls of children lost to abortion attend the throne of God. Please tell that to your friends who have been victims of abortion; their babies are gazing into the face of God. A Catholic doctrine that gives me great comfort is that of the Communion of Saints. The Catholic understanding of this is that the Church is one across time and space. Those who have died are still very much alive in their own state. Just as I can pray for you, they can pray for you as well. When we Catholics "pray to the saints", we are really asking them to add their prayers to ours: God alone is worshipped. Leeha, please tell your friends that their babies love them and forgive them for what they did. Indeed, it is an article of faith for me, that the souls of aborted children pray to God for the forgiveness and healing of their parents. That may sound creepy, I know, but if people do have eternal souls and God is all that He is claimed to be, then it must be so. Their innocent souls must have very powerful prayers indeed. Please do not let your friends despair of guilt for their decision. Even if they tell noone else but you, do not let it be a deep, down, dark, secret. They are victims as much as their babies. Let their souls be healed.

Do you know any neglected or abused children? Children with physical, mental, or emotional illnesses? Children in foster care or wards of the state? Children abandoned or exploited by their parents? If you do, please look at them and ask yourself this question: would they really be better off dead? I would wager that if you asked them that question, that they would tell you that no matter how unhappy their circumstances, they very much prefer to stick around. No child's life is so heinous that they cannot find some happiness eventually.   Even the monster in Austria who locked up and raped his own daughter for 20+ years did not produce in his daughter the opinion that the children that he fathered with her and locked up with her were worth any less than to be cherished. He was caught because she pleaded with him to save the life of her oldest daughter, who was ill,  by going to the hospital. Look at all the war orphans in Congo and Somalia, drugged and forced into the slavery of prostitution or as child soldiers. There is no worse life that I can think of and yet their lives are still meaningful and full of potential. They may not have an easy time of it and their life may not be one that you or I would want to lead, but it is a spiritual poverty to assume that they are better off not being given the chance to live.  The Nazi's, the Soviets, and the people who sterilized your aunt were all in the habit of deciding for others whether or not their lives were worth living. I can't imagine that pesuming to make that decision for others is ever just.

 Please don't think that all Republicans are heartless capitalists. There are factions within the GOP just as there are within the Democratic party, and there are a lot of earnest and compassionate conservatives who care deeply about the needs of the poor. Mike Huckabee is one that comes to mind.

You are right on about the need to mix self discipline and a sense of one's own dignity to prevent unwanted pregnancy with some reasonable option that either helps mothers care for their babies or otherwise provides care for the children. It is a pain to me that so many Americans would rather adopt a Chinese baby than an American one. Some of it may be racial, some of it may be misguided emotionalism about who needs a loving home more. My very best friend was adopted as an infant and she thanks God every day that her birth mother had the courage to give her up, and that her adoptive parents had the courage to give her a new chance in life. I'm not saying that adoption is a magic pill to solve the problem of unintended pregnancies, but women certainly must be made more aware of that option. As you suggest about your friends, abortion is not without its own long lasting consequences, even as giving up one's baby or choosing to raise it have long term consequences of their own. If we can just start making people realize that abortion is not the easy way out, and that there are nobler alternatives, AND promote the adoption of AMERICAN babies rather than foreign ones, AND provide assistance to mothers who want  to raise their babies,  the percieved need for abortion may be diminished.  Even if the Supreme court overturned Roe v. Wade and the congress imposed draconian anti-abortion statutes, there would still be abortion. I don't want to see a return to back alley abortions either. Ideally,  I don't want to see any abortions, legal or illegal unless the mother's health is in jeopardy. The only way to really accomplish that is to change people's hearts about it.

 I hope that I have not offended you  or bored you. You are a welcome find on these otherwise contentious boards. 

Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I am a religious person so I'm not offended by your post. In fact, I haven't been exposed to catholic doctrine so your religious views is something new to me. They're very hopeful and promising. And I'm so surprised that catholic doctrine has such a developed view of the afterlife. In my church its just this great big mystery, you better be right with God before you die kind of thing. If my friends ever bring up their abortions again, I'll share your message with them. I completely agree with what u had to say about children who are suffering the most still valuing their own life. I always thought that. And for me, thats the most disturbing thing about American women who have abortions. I think people are so afraid of failure and poverty they rather take the easy way out and have an abortion. Its important for women to know that there is many women who faced an unwanted pregnancy and they worked hard and overcamed their challenge. I know a girl in college who had a baby her sophmore year in high school and went on to go to medical school at an Ivy League school. Really people can do anything with a little hard work, abortion is the lazy woman's choice. Of course, in the feminist movement that is a very unpopular view, but maybe that'll change. Actually there is no room at all for that view, we've been silenced. But among groups that cater to poor women, what the strong single mother means is often discussed. I don't want anyone in this post to think that women of color aren't aware of our issues. We are and we are working on them. I've volunteered for Hopelink, an organization that offers all kind of services to poor women. They offer parenting classes, food, clothes, toys, and daycare services.--It was nice to talk to you. And I know this sounds corny, but good luck in life.

Dominus vobiscum Leeha. I hope that we shall meet in this life or the next.

Some friends to pray for you:

http://www.americancatholic.org/Messenger/Nov2002/Feature2.asp#F2

http://cafetheology.org/2007/03/15/a-patron-saint-for-social-workers/